Is the Universe a quantum fluctuation?

Guille said:
I remember you, you're the guy who joined here and attacked people because Rana told you to. I'll take you seriously when you manage to get your balls back.
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You should give that advice to Legion/Lionfish. He's been balless ever since Damo temp banned him for a 12B.
 
IBDaMann said:
@Trumpet, relax, no one ever accused you of knowing anything. Take a deep breath. You're still better off than Terry.
@Cypress, never let it be said that you know anything about science. It's good for you that you mostly avoid it.
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:lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup:

The Great Thinker has spoken.
 
Cypress said:
I'm not sure I buy it either, but it has some traction in the cosmology community.

One downside is that it seems to assume Heisenberg's uncertainty principle is eternal and must have somehow existed before the quantum fluctuation, since the fluctuations are a consequence of the uncertainty principle. . The assumption that natural laws are eternal and existed before time=0 creates another metaphysical chicken before the egg problem.
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Heisenberg's uncertainty principle:

(delta x)(delta p) > h/4pi

A quantum flux from the void seemingly implies Heisenberg's uncertainty principle is an eternal natural Law and that Planck's constant is eternal physical constant.

The hypothesis doesn't explain why this law and physical constant are eternal or where they came from.
 
goat said:
Why has string theory remained influential?

Is there physics beyond the standard model?

No one wants to talk about the success and failures of Tryon.
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IDK. Why do you think so?

Yes. My understanding is that that quantum physics is beyond the standard model.

No one? That's the delusional part of your paranoid schizophrenia speaking for you, COgoat. Most people don't claim to read minds and speak for everyone. Schizos do it often as you demonstrated.
 
Doc Dutch said:
IDK. Why do you think so?

Yes. My understanding is that that quantum physics is beyond the standard model.

No one? That's the delusional part of your paranoid schizophrenia speaking for you, COgoat. Most people don't claim to read minds and speak for everyone. Schizos do it often as you demonstrated.
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Observable physics is a thing of the past, everything is theoretical now. Particle physics is dead.
 
Cypress said:
Perhaps the whole Universe is the result of a vacuum fluctuation, originating from what we could call quantum nothingness.

In quantum mechanics, there is no zero-energy state. There is only the lowest possible energy state of a system, its ground state. Now, if there is an inherent uncertainty in the energy of a system, then the energy of the ground state can fluctuate. If we call this ground state a quantum vacuum, it follows that the quantum vacuum always has some structure to it. There is no such thing as a true vacuum in the sense of complete emptiness. Quantum mechanics forbids nothingness.

If there are energy fluctuations in a quantum vacuum, very interesting things can happen. For example, the E = mc2 relation tells us that energy and matter are interconvertible. A vacuum energy fluctuation can be converted into particles of matter. Sounds weird? Maybe, but it happens all the time. These particles are called virtual particles, living a fleeting existence before plunging back into the ever-busy quantum vacuum.

Physicist Edward Tryon extrapolated the idea of quantum fluctuations to the Universe as a whole. He reasoned that if all that existed was a quantum vacuum, a bubble-like energy fluctuation out of this vacuum could have given rise to the Universe. Tryon proposed that the whole Universe is the result of a vacuum fluctuation, originating from what we could call quantum nothingness.

Tryon’s proposal falls into the category of universes with a beginning, but created out of nothing. However, nothingness here, as well as in all the other examples of quantum-created universes that followed Tryon’s inspiring idea, must be understood in terms of quantum mechanical nothingness, and not from an absolute nothingness that translates to complete emptiness. In physics you simply cannot get something out of nothing. Creation ex nihilo is not the way of nature.

https://bigthink.com/13-8/universe-quantum-fluctuation/
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The quantum fluctuation theory, even if completely valid, is not particularly easy to understand.

Calling the universe "Fate's big mistake" is not only easy to understand,
but also obvious to even the most casual observer.
 
Cypress said:
Heisenberg's uncertainty principle:

(delta x)(delta p) > h/4pi

A quantum flux from the void seemingly implies Heisenberg's uncertainty principle is an eternal natural Law and that Planck's constant is eternal physical constant.

The hypothesis doesn't explain why this law and physical constant are eternal or where they came from.
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All human scientific knowledge is based upon the constants in the Universe, the predictability. Discovering those constants is a primary goal of scientific investigation. As you've pointed out, the Heisenberg Principle and Planck's Constant exist as certainties.

Understanding the science itself, quickly goes over my head, but the philosophy of accepting eternal constants is a good one since it's the foundation for human technical advancement.

As Prof. Kotschnig pointed out: it's good to keep an open mind but not so open one's brains fall out.

The Trumpers, like other violent, poorly educated groups, both doubt and deny science. They seek to destroy the better educated, the intellects and the academics. It happened in Germany in the 20s and 30s and also in Cambodia in the mid-to-late 70s under the Khmer Rouge. Now Trumpers are following suit...because they ain't too bright and not very creative.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
The quantum fluctuation theory, even if completely valid, is not particularly easy to understand.

Calling the universe "Fate's big mistake" is not only easy to understand,
but also obvious to even the most casual observer.
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This is how I map it out in my mind:

1) First, forget about matter and energy being two separate things, they are both two sides of the same coin.

2) There is no such thing as "nothingness", or a true vacuum, or a complete void.

3) The so-called vacuum is bubbling with a latent energy that fluctuates around a ground state.

4) Since matter and energy are interchangeable, this vacuum energy is causing virtual particles to constantly pop into and out of existence, but only existing for a fleeting fraction of a nanosecond.


^ That idea is being extrapolated to the origin of the cosmos
 
Doc Dutch said:
I'm sure you believe all of that is true.
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Tryon reminds us of why string theory is still relevant. There is space beyond our universe. Theoretical physics is no different than philosophy. Everything comes full circle.
 
If there's no such thing as a complete vacuum or void,
my mind can't seem to process the idea
of nothing having existed before the different state of existence, other than nothingness, that we try envision.

Forward infinity is easy enough to grasp. More of the same shit forever, or failing that, something different that we can't quite imagine.
Backwards infinity doesn't have any look that I can imagine. Whatever it is with which we start, what came before it?

Also, the concept of a perfect void, whether it actually ever existed or not, is such a beautiful and peaceful thing to imagine--
not to mention something for which one would hope in the future would either occur or reoccur--
that I'd prefer not to give up that idea of absolute perfection.
 
goat said:
Tryon reminds us of why string theory is still relevant. There is space beyond our universe. Theoretical physics is no different than philosophy. Everything comes full circle.
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"Universe" technically means everything that exists. How can there be space beyond it?
 
Doc Dutch said:
All human scientific knowledge is based upon the constants in the Universe, the predictability. Discovering those constants is a primary goal of scientific investigation. As you've pointed out, the Heisenberg Principle and Planck's Constant exist as certainties.

Understanding the science itself, quickly goes over my head, but the philosophy of accepting eternal constants is a good one since it's the foundation for human technical advancement.

As Prof. Kotschnig pointed out: it's good to keep an open mind but not so open one's brains fall out.

The Trumpers, like other violent, poorly educated groups, both doubt and deny science. They seek to destroy the better educated, the intellects and the academics. It happened in Germany in the 20s and 30s and also in Cambodia in the mid-to-late 70s under the Khmer Rouge. Now Trumpers are following suit...because they ain't too bright and not very creative.
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Most of the good universities are in the blue states probably for a reason.

It's more a philosophical question than a scientific one: are the physical laws eternal, if so why, if not why do they exist and how did they get created?
 
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