Just what IS conservativism?

What? And you're noble for preferring wage slavery?

I don't prefer or want "wage slavery" at all. I want wages to to be comensurate with what the market will support in a capitalist system. It's like Gov. Christie told the school teacher who was bitching about her pay.. you don't have to do this for a living! That's how capitalist systems work, you are paid what you are worth, the value of your labor is dependent upon what you do. Maytag builds washing machines in Mexico now, because it's cheaper for them to pay a Mexican $5 an hour, to which they are more than grateful for, rather than pay an American worker $25 an hour, plus 6 weeks of paid leave, plus health care benefits, plus pensions, plus insuring they will be paid a portion of that even if they are laid off, for 2 years or until they find another job, plus, plus, plus! It's just cheaper for them to pay a Mexican $5, and be done with it! They are in business to make washing machines cheap enough to compete in the market.

I can't do anything about what the Chinese are paid, I don't run the Chinese government, I don't have any say whatsoever, in what they do! It doesn't matter whether I like it or don't like it, it makes no difference one way or the other, the Chinese are going to do what they do, and there isn't a thing I can do about that. You seem to believe, if we stop buying from them, the people there will suddenly start making $25 an hour and have 6 weeks of paid leave, etc.! That's just not reality, it's not going to happen.
 
I don't prefer or want "wage slavery" at all. I want wages to to be comensurate with what the market will support in a capitalist system. It's like Gov. Christie told the school teacher who was bitching about her pay.. you don't have to do this for a living! That's how capitalist systems work, you are paid what you are worth, the value of your labor is dependent upon what you do. Maytag builds washing machines in Mexico now, because it's cheaper for them to pay a Mexican $5 an hour, to which they are more than grateful for, rather than pay an American worker $25 an hour, plus 6 weeks of paid leave, plus health care benefits, plus pensions, plus insuring they will be paid a portion of that even if they are laid off, for 2 years or until they find another job, plus, plus, plus! It's just cheaper for them to pay a Mexican $5, and be done with it! They are in business to make washing machines cheap enough to compete in the market.

I can't do anything about what the Chinese are paid, I don't run the Chinese government, I don't have any say whatsoever, in what they do! It doesn't matter whether I like it or don't like it, it makes no difference one way or the other, the Chinese are going to do what they do, and there isn't a thing I can do about that. You seem to believe, if we stop buying from them, the people there will suddenly start making $25 an hour and have 6 weeks of paid leave, etc.! That's just not reality, it's not going to happen.


But you want to manipulate the market if people are getting paid "too much".

You fascists love the market as long as you can manipulate it via your friends in government.

And you can cease incentivizing the one party dictators in china by working for protectionist measures which make their state slavery system less profitable. But you don't want to do that because you want the slave labor.

SHut your pathetic hole. You endorse human mistreatment if it profits you.

And you only respect markets as long as you can manipulate them to your favor.
 
Oh look, the predictable baseless allegations of a defeated liberal when he learns that The Founders weren't liberal by his definition and that there is no general welfare clause.

So will you go forward now realizing these truths, or will you forget about your defeat today and repeat your lies tomorrow? :)

Bluster and faux victory is a such a predictable right wing trait. Are you THAT insecure? Why can't you answer my question; are you afraid?
 
Bluster and faux victory is a such a predictable right wing trait. Are you THAT insecure? Why can't you answer my question; are you afraid?
Ignoring defeat seems to be a liberal trait. Are you THAT insecure?

1. Do you still believe that the Founders were "liberal" in accordance with the modern definition?
2. Do you still believe, in spite of Madison's passionate denial, that there is a "general welfare" clause?
3. What question?
 
But you want to manipulate the market if people are getting paid "too much".

You fascists love the market as long as you can manipulate it via your friends in government.

And you can cease incentivizing the one party dictators in china by working for protectionist measures which make their state slavery system less profitable. But you don't want to do that because you want the slave labor.

SHut your pathetic hole. You endorse human mistreatment if it profits you.

And you only respect markets as long as you can manipulate them to your favor.

No, I don't want to manipulate the market if people are getting paid "too much" or "not enough" either way. I want the market to determine what people are paid. Period!

I don't have any "friends in government" the two words "friends" and "government" don't even belong together in MY book! When I hear government is being my "friend" I reach for the Vaseline jar!

Now let's talk about China. If I stop buying their goods, and you claim that will de-incentivize their state slavery system, what do you suppose happens to those "slaves" in China? Do you suppose the Chinese leaders are going to say... OH CRAP! I guess we better start paying these people more money? Or maybe they will say... OMG, we have to shell out money hand over fist to take care of these poor people who have no jobs now! Perhaps that is what might happen in a democratic society like America, where we have bleeding-heart liberals to be concerned about the needy, but I don't think they have those in Chinese leadership. So, do you care to venture a guess at what fate might befall the millions of Chinese workers who are no longer of value to the Chinese government? ...And you think I am cruel and mean???
 
No, I don't want to manipulate the market if people are getting paid "too much" or "not enough" either way. I want the market to determine what people are paid. Period!
No. You want to augment markets with h1-b visas and trade agreemetns which incentivize slavery to get cheaper labor.
I don't have any "friends in government" the two words "friends" and "government" don't even belong together in MY book! When I hear government is being my "friend" I reach for the Vaseline jar!
But the corporations you shill for do.
Now let's talk about China. If I stop buying their goods, and you claim that will de-incentivize their state slavery system, what do you suppose happens to those "slaves" in China?
Their revolution will be more possible if we stop supporting the regime with trade dollars.
Do you suppose the Chinese leaders are going to say... OH CRAP! I guess we better start paying these people more money? Or maybe they will say... OMG, we have to shell out money hand over fist to take care of these poor people who have no jobs now! Perhaps that is what might happen in a democratic society like America, where we have bleeding-heart liberals to be concerned about the needy, but I don't think they have those in Chinese leadership. So, do you care to venture a guess at what fate might befall the millions of Chinese workers who are no longer of value to the Chinese government? ...And you think I am cruel and mean???


The party is more firmly entrenched with each american order they get.

And really im more concerned about the impact on americans anyway. Im not a "global citizen" liberal like you are.
 
No. You want to augment markets with h1-b visas and trade agreemetns which incentivize slavery to get cheaper labor.

h1-b whats??? I don't even know what the fuck you're talking about here. We have a trade agreement with China, and many other nations. Those trade agreements were made by people other than myself, and there is not a helluva lot I can personally do about that. We're not going to stop trading internationally, especially since we no longer make jack shit in America! Do you want to live in a society where you can't GET a television set, because none are available? And IF you are wealthy enough to have friends who can get you one on the black market somewhere, it will cost you upwards of $10k? I don't! I kinda like being able to go to Wal-mart and buy whatever the fuck I want to buy, when I want to buy it! I think most Americans do like that, maybe you're the exception! Maybe you need to sell all your worldly possessions and try living like a Tibetan Monk a few years, then come back and tell us what that was like? I think you might have a new found appreciation for STUFF!

But the corporations you shill for do.

Corporations are the creations of people who have the entrepreneurial spirit to make money in a capitalist system of free enterprise. They are not self-reliant entities operating of their own volition to the detriment of humankind! In ALL cases, a corporation is going to do what is in their best interest and is most profitable and advantageous for the corporation. That's just how things are, I can't prevent that from being the case, and neither can you. It doesn't matter what I support or condone, or what you support and condone, or how much absolute bullshit you throw at them, the facts still remain what they are.

Their revolution will be more possible if we stop supporting the regime with trade dollars.

Really? How do you conduct a revolution from the grave? Because, mark my word, the moment the Chinese worker no longer has a benefit to offer their governmental regime, they will die in mass numbers. The Chinese government can't afford to take care of them like Liberals take care of the indigent here, and they won't even bother trying, because they don't give a shit about human rights, they have no Constitutional protections, they don't believe in such a thing, and if these "wage slaves" in China aren't productive to China, they will be eliminated. That's how China operates, whether you bitch and moan about things or not. What you are advocating is GENOCIDE! Sure, you could claim it was an unintended consequence, but that's what you are advocating with your stupidity, and you need to realize it.

The party is more firmly entrenched with each american order they get. And really im more concerned about the impact on americans anyway. Im not a "global citizen" liberal like you are.

The ruling class in China has been in place for CENTURIES... I kinda think they are already "entrenched" and nothing will dislodge them. As I said earlier, the "impact" on Americans, for us to just stop buying shit from other countries, is self-evident, since we don't produce shit here! You think, we should just DO THIS and see what happens, because you're an emotive nitwit who thinks everyone is a Fascist except you! You're absolutely INSANE, and I don't know why I even bother trying to converse with such a fool. People here laugh at what a SPOOF you are, because all you do is repeat the same mindless stupidity over and over again, as if your repeating it will somehow make it all true! Get a clue... Get a LIFE!
 
h1-b whats??? I don't even know what the fuck you're talking about here. We have a trade agreement with China, and many other nations. Those trade agreements were made by people other than myself, and there is not a helluva lot I can personally do about that. We're not going to stop trading internationally, especially since we no longer make jack shit in America! Do you want to live in a society where you can't GET a television set, because none are available? And IF you are wealthy enough to have friends who can get you one on the black market somewhere, it will cost you upwards of $10k? I don't! I kinda like being able to go to Wal-mart and buy whatever the fuck I want to buy, when I want to buy it! I think most Americans do like that, maybe you're the exception! Maybe you need to sell all your worldly possessions and try living like a Tibetan Monk a few years, then come back and tell us what that was like? I think you might have a new found appreciation for STUFF!



Corporations are the creations of people who have the entrepreneurial spirit to make money in a capitalist system of free enterprise. They are not self-reliant entities operating of their own volition to the detriment of humankind! In ALL cases, a corporation is going to do what is in their best interest and is most profitable and advantageous for the corporation. That's just how things are, I can't prevent that from being the case, and neither can you. It doesn't matter what I support or condone, or what you support and condone, or how much absolute bullshit you throw at them, the facts still remain what they are.



Really? How do you conduct a revolution from the grave? Because, mark my word, the moment the Chinese worker no longer has a benefit to offer their governmental regime, they will die in mass numbers. The Chinese government can't afford to take care of them like Liberals take care of the indigent here, and they won't even bother trying, because they don't give a shit about human rights, they have no Constitutional protections, they don't believe in such a thing, and if these "wage slaves" in China aren't productive to China, they will be eliminated. That's how China operates, whether you bitch and moan about things or not. What you are advocating is GENOCIDE! Sure, you could claim it was an unintended consequence, but that's what you are advocating with your stupidity, and you need to realize it.



The ruling class in China has been in place for CENTURIES... I kinda think they are already "entrenched" and nothing will dislodge them. As I said earlier, the "impact" on Americans, for us to just stop buying shit from other countries, is self-evident, since we don't produce shit here! You think, we should just DO THIS and see what happens, because you're an emotive nitwit who thinks everyone is a Fascist except you! You're absolutely INSANE, and I don't know why I even bother trying to converse with such a fool. People here laugh at what a SPOOF you are, because all you do is repeat the same mindless stupidity over and over again, as if your repeating it will somehow make it all true! Get a clue... Get a LIFE!
You get wht you pay for!
 
I can only envision your America as a nation living the fate of Robert Frost's hired man, the fate of having "nothing to look backward to with pride, and nothing to look forward to with hope."

I have a hard time talking to people (I use that term generically) that have nothing inside of them that can be called human or socially redeeming. The 'conservative' today is the modern day Pharisee.

If you are so enamored with our founding fathers, before you use their words to kill human beings, why don't you consider how they actually GOVERNED and how they viewed corporations and how they viewed deregulation? Do you even know?
Not a clue that is why he shops at Wal Mart and I don't!
 
h1-b whats??? I don't even know what the fuck you're talking about here. We have a trade agreement with China, and many other nations. Those trade agreements were made by people other than myself, and there is not a helluva lot I can personally do about that.
Well, according that that assinine logic, you shouldn't espouse any policy positions, because you're not in government. But yet here you are, braying on like a demented ass.
We're not going to stop trading internationally, especially since we no longer make jack shit in America!
We could and should stop trading internationally. This will revitalize domestic production. Trade agreements can and will be undone, because not all of them are good.
Do you want to live in a society where you can't GET a television set, because none are available? And IF you are wealthy enough to have friends who can get you one on the black market somewhere, it will cost you upwards of $10k? I don't! I kinda like being able to go to Wal-mart and buy whatever the fuck I want to buy, when I want to buy it! I think most Americans do like that, maybe you're the exception! Maybe you need to sell all your worldly possessions and try living like a Tibetan Monk a few years, then come back and tell us what that was like? I think you might have a new found appreciation for STUFF!
We can everything here locally.
Corporations are the creations of people who have the entrepreneurial spirit to make money in a capitalist system of free enterprise. They are not self-reliant entities operating of their own volition to the detriment of humankind!
SOme of them are just pricks paying government to allow them to leech onto society.

They're not as morally pure as your brainwashed self thinks.
In ALL cases, a corporation is going to do what is in their best interest and is most profitable and advantageous for the corporation. That's just how things are, I can't prevent that from being the case, and neither can you.
That's why we pass laws to place limits on what businesses may do to create profit. Slavery was out a whle ago, but you seem still like it.
It doesn't matter what I support or condone, or what you support and condone, or how much absolute bullshit you throw at them, the facts still remain what they are.
And the fact is that the constitution grants the federal government the power to craft international trade policy. And we need more tariffs and protectionist to disincentive slave labor.
Really? How do you conduct a revolution from the grave? Because, mark my word, the moment the Chinese worker no longer has a benefit to offer their governmental regime, they will die in mass numbers. The Chinese government can't afford to take care of them like Liberals take care of the indigent here, and they won't even bother trying, because they don't give a shit about human rights, they have no Constitutional protections, they don't believe in such a thing, and if these "wage slaves" in China aren't productive to China, they will be eliminated. That's how China operates, whether you bitch and moan about things or not. What you are advocating is GENOCIDE! Sure, you could claim it was an unintended consequence, but that's what you are advocating with your stupidity, and you need to realize it.
Enriching the regime just keeps them as slave in perpetuity.
The ruling class in China has been in place for CENTURIES... I kinda think they are already "entrenched" and nothing will dislodge them. As I said earlier, the "impact" on Americans, for us to just stop buying shit from other countries, is self-evident, since we don't produce shit here! You think, we should just DO THIS and see what happens, because you're an emotive nitwit who thinks everyone is a Fascist except you! You're absolutely INSANE, and I don't know why I even bother trying to converse with such a fool. People here laugh at what a SPOOF you are, because all you do is repeat the same mindless stupidity over and over again, as if your repeating it will somehow make it all true! Get a clue... Get a LIFE!

Why are you afraid of chinese communists? They are not supermen.

The people are rejecting globalization, and your illogical, fear based defenses of it are failing.
 
Well, according that that assinine logic, you shouldn't espouse any policy positions, because you're not in government. But yet here you are, braying on like a demented ass.

No, YOU are the demented ass, not ME!

We could and should stop trading internationally. This will revitalize domestic production. Trade agreements can and will be undone, because not all of them are good.

We can everything here locally.

No, we really can't. I wish we could! It would be wonderful if we lived in 1950, and had the ability to produce things again, but the cost of labor in America, with unions and governmental regulations, has become too costly. A shirt that now costs you $10, would cost you $500 if it were manufactured by unionized labor in the US. A toaster you might pay $20 for, would cost you $200 if it were made in the USA. Across the board, all of this stuff that consumers purchase, would cost dramatically MORE on the shelf, because of labor costs here, versus labor cost + tariffs, if produced elsewhere. That is just a fact of life and economics and business. Nothing you can do about that, it's just how things are. Now, if you want to abolish unions and let free market capitalism work again, then yeah... maybe in 10-20 years we really could start making our own shit again, but that's not going to happen. We have to operate in the real world, and use logic which applies to the reality of it. It does no good to fantasize about a world that doesn't exist anymore!

SOme of them are just pricks paying government to allow them to leech onto society.

They're not as morally pure as your brainwashed self thinks.

I never said Corporations were moral and pure. I agree, some of them are pricks who pay government to allow them to leech onto society, but corporations exist to make a profit, and everything they do is motivated by that. You want corporations to behave a certain way? Make it profitable for them to behave that way, and they will! Simple as that!

That's why we pass laws to place limits on what businesses may do to create profit. Slavery was out a whle ago, but you seem still like it.

No, I don't like slavery. The more laws you've passed, the more corporations have found ways around the laws to continue making profit, because that is what corporations exist to do. You won't ever stop that... you may end the corporation, you may put them out of business, but you can't end them making profit, that's what they exist to do!

And the fact is that the constitution grants the federal government the power to craft international trade policy. And we need more tariffs and protectionist to disincentive slave labor.

And again, because you're thick headed... what purpose will that serve to the poor "wage slaves" in China and elsewhere? Does that guarantee them better wages? Does that even guarantee they will get to LIVE? If what you were saying would cause one of those things to happen, I might agree with you, but the FACT OF THE MATTER is, it won't do any such thing. It will make their lives WORSE, if they are fortunate enough to be allowed to live!

Enriching the regime just keeps them as slave in perpetuity.

Well, is it better to be a slave in perpetuity, or be DEAD?


Why are you afraid of chinese communists? They are not supermen.

The people are rejecting globalization, and your illogical, fear based defenses of it are failing.

Appeal to absurdeum, once again! You are the only "people" I see making these inane points and getting your ass handed to you. No one else is joining in on this idiocy, except Rana... that should tell you where you're at there!

I'm not afraid of Chinese communists. This has nothing to do with fear. You have some warped idea that we can just cut off trade with China and have no subsequent consequences, and the "wage slaves" in China will somehow have a better life, and we'll continue to enjoy cheap shit! It just doesn't comport with reality or logic, so I have a problem with it. Sorry!
 
No, YOU are the demented ass, not ME!
No it's you. you're the one saying people shouldn't advocate things unless they're in a governmental position to enact them. That's braying.
No, we really can't. I wish we could!
We can.
It would be wonderful if we lived in 1950, and had the ability to produce things again, but the cost of labor in America, with unions and governmental regulations, has become too costly.
If we didn't have cheaper overseas alternatives, we would still produce everything we needed. You know the fed makes money out of thin air, right?
A shirt that now costs you $10, would cost you $500 if it were manufactured by unionized labor in the US. A toaster you might pay $20 for, would cost you $200 if it were made in the USA. Across the board, all of this stuff that consumers purchase, would cost dramatically MORE on the shelf, because of labor costs here, versus labor cost + tariffs, if produced elsewhere. That is just a fact of life and economics and business. Nothing you can do about that, it's just how things are.
Now it;'s time for "The Dixie's Numbers Out Of His Ass Show". Thanks, very entertaining.

We can and should enact protectionist measures. That's the real "fact" of "how things are". Your alleged impossibilities are just your brainwash showing.
Now, if you want to abolish unions and let free market capitalism work again, then yeah... maybe in 10-20 years we really could start making our own shit again, but that's not going to happen. We have to operate in the real world, and use logic which applies to the reality of it. It does no good to fantasize about a world that doesn't exist anymore!
In the real world, the government has the power to change trade policy at any moment. And the economy will adjust, bringing us to full employment and complete self-reliance.
I never said Corporations were moral and pure. I agree, some of them are pricks who pay government to allow them to leech onto society, but corporations exist to make a profit, and everything they do is motivated by that. You want corporations to behave a certain way? Make it profitable for them to behave that way, and they will! Simple as that!
Yes. Tariffs and protectionism do just that, they make it more profitable to employ american producers rather than use foreign slave markets. I think you can learn, you just refuse to.
No, I don't like slavery. The more laws you've passed, the more corporations have found ways around the laws to continue making profit, because that is what corporations exist to do. You won't ever stop that... you may end the corporation, you may put them out of business, but you can't end them making profit, that's what they exist to do!
That's why government has to keep making laws as businesses venture into more and more destructive and immoral territories. That's what government exists to do, and you can't stop that.
And again, because you're thick headed... what purpose will that serve to the poor "wage slaves" in China and elsewhere? Does that guarantee them better wages? Does that even guarantee they will get to LIVE? If what you were saying would cause one of those things to happen, I might agree with you, but the FACT OF THE MATTER is, it won't do any such thing. It will make their lives WORSE, if they are fortunate enough to be allowed to live!
My main concern is the impact on americans, but i do believe that the regime will have a tougher time keeping control without overseas trade dollars.
Well, is it better to be a slave in perpetuity, or be DEAD?
It's better to be dead attempting to gain freedom.
Appeal to absurdeum, once again! You are the only "people" I see making these inane points and getting your ass handed to you. No one else is joining in on this idiocy, except Rana... that should tell you where you're at there!
The truth is im handing your ass to you.
I'm not afraid of Chinese communists. This has nothing to do with fear. You have some warped idea that we can just cut off trade with China and have no subsequent consequences, and the "wage slaves" in China will somehow have a better life, and we'll continue to enjoy cheap shit! It just doesn't comport with reality or logic, so I have a problem with it. Sorry!


Let me reiterate, my main concern is the impact on american lives, but i do feel the regime will crumble without foreign trade dollars. That's how the regime feels too.
 
Here's the thing, Bfoon, you don't understand this because you are rather simple-minded. You think in relatively shallow terms, with naive simplicity, regarding the issues and problems people face on a daily basis. In your elementary thinking, there are these people who are needy, and the best way to help them, is to take wealth from those people over there and give it to them. It's really no more complicated than this inside your head. The problem is, we've been doing what you thought was the best thing to do, for more than 70 years, and the problem persists, perhaps to a greater degree now, than ever before. You've not fixed anything, you've not helped anyone, and you are still mired in this simplistic notion that you can redistribute the wealth to accomplish your objectives. It simply doesn't work, never has, never will.

To further complicate your problem, you view those who oppose your simplistic notion, as mean-spirited people who just don't care about the needy. You've constructed a thought process, by which, you are the hero in a white hat, and those conservatives are the villains in the black hats. You just want to help those in distress, and we are greedy selfish ogres who want to prevent you from doing that. I assure you, I care just as much about helping those in need as you do...probably more. I just have a different approach, a different idea of how to help them. Because it is a little more complicated than your idea, and involves personal responsibility and motivation, you simply reject it and revert back to your simple-minded solutions that have proven not to work. Now, whether you ever live to realize this or not, is something that remains to be seen.

People are not lifted out of dismal poverty by a government welfare check, it just doesn't happen. You can't give me one example, out of the millions and millions of Americans who have been on welfare, of a person who became successful and prosperous because of that monthly check. NOT ONE! It doesn't happen, because the monthly check only enables dependence on the next monthly check. You can give away housing, education, food, health care, and all it does is foster more dependence for more entitlement. People are not lifted up through this process, it is only through individual spirit and determination, the desire to make something better of their life, the motivation to succeed and prosper, that those people are lifted out of their condition. What you advocate, is actually an excuse for them to never realize this potential, and simply accept what crumbs are being tossed to them, for the rest of their lives. Now I ask you, who has more compassion for those people? Someone who wants to continue enabling their dependence and thus, keep them impoverished forever, or someone who seeks to motivate them and encourage their individual spirit to succeed?

That is quite a noble rant Dixie. It is one of the better self centered justifications I've heard, but here's the problem. I don't believe a word of it and here's why; your fairy tale requires other people to play along and conform to a role you supply for them. There's always the 'able bodied but lazy poor person', the 'bleeding heart' but empty headed 'liberal' who just wants to hand out other people's money and of course, the clear headed 'conservative' whose 'tough love' always saves the day. Well, I refuse to play along Dixie. If you had the intelligence and curiosity to find out what the 'War on Poverty' was about and what it wasn't about, it would save you from all the bloviation that comes out of your ass. But it's a lot easier for you to define it under YOUR self righteous terms so you don't have to care. It is also predictable that you chose 'welfare', because that fits so neatly into your 'dependency' and 'entitlement' dismissal of others. There are reasons for and realities to poverty, you have focused on the least of them.

When JFK's brother-in law Sargent Shriver accepted LBJ's challenge and took on the 'War on Poverty' the first thing he discovered was rather startling and disturbing. Half of the Americans living in poverty were children. Another large segment were elderly and another segment were mentally and/or physically disabled. So a HUGE segment of the poor fit the TRUE definition of a dependent. So there is an obligation as a civil society to make sure those real dependents are not trampled on or extinguished.

To address some of the players in your fairy tale, voila! We have an unabashed flaming liberal...Sargent Shriver. But I hate to disappoint you. Sargent Shriver hated welfare and had no intention of creating a handout program. He didn't believe in handouts, he believed in community action. The 'War on Poverty' was called the Office of Economic Opportunity. The core principles were opportunity, responsibility, community and empowerment. The program strove for maximum feasible participation. One of the concepts of empowerment was poor people had a right to one-third of the seats on every local poverty program board. It was a community based program that focused on education as the keys to the city. Programs such as VISTA, Job Corps, Community Action Program, and Head Start were created to increase opportunity for the poor so they could pull themselves out of poverty with a hand UP, not a hand out. Even when Johnson effectively pulled the plug on the War on Poverty to fund the war in Vietnam, Shriver fought on and won. During the Shriver years more Americans got out of poverty than during any similar time in our history. (The Clinton years - employing the same philosophy - were the second best.)

Ref
 
That is quite a noble rant Dixie. It is one of the better self centered justifications I've heard, but here's the problem. I don't believe a word of it and here's why; your fairy tale requires other people to play along and conform to a role you supply for them. There's always the 'able bodied but lazy poor person', the 'bleeding heart' but empty headed 'liberal' who just wants to hand out other people's money and of course, the clear headed 'conservative' whose 'tough love' always saves the day. Well, I refuse to play along Dixie. If you had the intelligence and curiosity to find out what the 'War on Poverty' was about and what it wasn't about, it would save you from all the bloviation that comes out of your ass. But it's a lot easier for you to define it under YOUR self righteous terms so you don't have to care. It is also predictable that you chose 'welfare', because that fits so neatly into your 'dependency' and 'entitlement' dismissal of others. There are reasons for and realities to poverty, you have focused on the least of them.

When JFK's brother-in law Sargent Shriver accepted LBJ's challenge and took on the 'War on Poverty' the first thing he discovered was rather startling and disturbing. Half of the Americans living in poverty were children. Another large segment were elderly and another segment were mentally and/or physically disabled. So a HUGE segment of the poor fit the TRUE definition of a dependent. So there is an obligation as a civil society to make sure those real dependents are not trampled on or extinguished.

To address some of the players in your fairy tale, voila! We have an unabashed flaming liberal...Sargent Shriver. But I hate to disappoint you. Sargent Shriver hated welfare and had no intention of creating a handout program. He didn't believe in handouts, he believed in community action. The 'War on Poverty' was called the Office of Economic Opportunity. The core principles were opportunity, responsibility, community and empowerment. The program strove for maximum feasible participation. One of the concepts of empowerment was poor people had a right to one-third of the seats on every local poverty program board. It was a community based program that focused on education as the keys to the city. Programs such as VISTA, Job Corps, Community Action Program, and Head Start were created to increase opportunity for the poor so they could pull themselves out of poverty with a hand UP, not a hand out. Even when Johnson effectively pulled the plug on the War on Poverty to fund the war in Vietnam, Shriver fought on and won. During the Shriver years more Americans got out of poverty than during any similar time in our history. (The Clinton years - employing the same philosophy - were the second best.)

Ref
This is well written and thank you for taking the time, but I don't think he will believe you, sociopaths have that problem!
 
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