Majority of United States Faces 'Elevated Risk' of Summer Power Blackouts Amid Green

[Into the Night]

They are only good for local work

They aren't good for local work either. Remember, these trucks have to carry a profitable payload. Batteries are heavy, reducing their available payload by a LOT.

The bigger the vehicle, the worse the problem.

EVs work for smaller cars and golf carts (a lot of golf courses hate them and replace them with gas carts, and gas carts are the preferred cart for retirement communities like The Villages), but EVs are still expensive to buy and maintain and have their other problems with convenience and fire hazard.

 

[Into the Night]

Most places are going to solar now

Not true. Solar is even more expensive than wind.

 

[Into the Night]

Oil is also needed for things like plastic

Quite right. Some plastics also come from coal or methane.

 

[Yakuda]

Quite right. Some plastics also come from coal or methane.

There's petroleum in toothpaste

 

[Nordberg]

They aren't good for local work either. Remember, these trucks have to carry a profitable payload. Batteries are heavy, reducing their available payload by a LOT.

The bigger the vehicle, the worse the problem.

EVs work for smaller cars and golf carts (a lot of golf courses hate them and replace them with gas carts, and gas carts are the preferred cart for retirement communities like The Villages), but EVs are still expensive to buy and maintain and have their other problems with convenience and fire hazard.

They carry heavier payloads.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

They carry heavier payloads.

With commercial vehicles, there are weight limits they have to meet when operating. The Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) is the weight of the vehicle and it's load. Batteries weigh far more than gasoline and result in reduced payloads. That means the cost per pound, ton, whatever of the payload will increase to offset the smaller amount being hauled per vehicle.

 

[Into the Night]

They carry heavier payloads.

Blatant lie.

 

[Walt]

With commercial vehicles, there are weight limits they have to meet when operating. The Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) is the weight of the vehicle and it's load. Batteries weigh far more than gasoline and result in reduced payloads. That means the cost per pound, ton, whatever of the payload will increase to offset the smaller amount being hauled per vehicle.

All the biggest payload land vehicles have electric propulsion. Many times that electricity is provided by a diesel engine, but many times it is provided by overhead lines. If anything, overhead lines means greater payload, because no need to carry any fuel in the vehicle.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

All the biggest payload land vehicles have electric propulsion. Many times that electricity is provided by a diesel engine, but many times it is provided by overhead lines. If anything, overhead lines means greater payload, because no need to carry any fuel in the vehicle.

No, they are diesel electrics. That is, they have a diesel engine that drives a generator that produces electricity to drive the electric motor. That combination is highly efficient. The diesel is a good prime mover and the fuel it uses is far more flexible than batteries would be. The electric motor produces more torque than the diesel so is good for heavy vehicles.

Overhead line systems only work with lighter vehicles like city busses or smaller rail systems. That's because the amperage required rises significantly with load and would result in too heavy and complex a set of cables and contacting systems.

 

[Walt]

Overhead line systems only work with lighter vehicles like city busses or smaller rail systems.

The heaviest cargo trains in the world are mostly overhead electric. Europe and more importantly Russia are heavily electrified. The Russians regularly move 5,000 ton trains with overhead electric.

That's because the amperage required rises significantly with load and would result in too heavy and complex a set of cables and contacting systems.

Tell that to the Trans-Siberian Railway.

 

[Into the Night]

All the biggest payload land vehicles have electric propulsion. Many times that electricity is provided by a diesel engine, but many times it is provided by overhead lines. If anything, overhead lines means greater payload, because no need to carry any fuel in the vehicle.

Blatant lie.

 

[Into the Night]

No, they are diesel electrics. That is, they have a diesel engine that drives a generator that produces electricity to drive the electric motor. That combination is highly efficient. The diesel is a good prime mover and the fuel it uses is far more flexible than batteries would be. The electric motor produces more torque than the diesel so is good for heavy vehicles.

Overhead line systems only work with lighter vehicles like city busses or smaller rail systems. That's because the amperage required rises significantly with load and would result in too heavy and complex a set of cables and contacting systems.

He's trying to deflect to trains instead of trucks also, AND using special pleading fallacies concerning both.

 

[Into the Night]

The heaviest cargo trains in the world are mostly overhead electric. Europe and more importantly Russia are heavily electrified. The Russians regularly move 5,000 ton trains with overhead electric.



Tell that to the Trans-Siberian Railway.

Doesn't exist in the SDTC. The discussion is about trucks, not trains, dumbass.
Neither truck nor freight train uses overhead lines.

Currently, only about 37% of the Russian rail system is electrified.
Further, what IS electrified still has to produce that additional electricity. That's coal, oil, natural gas, nuke, etc. Efficiency is a lot less due to heat losses in generating plants, transformers, wiring, ballasting, distribution along the rail itself (including contact heating), and from the electric motor on the train itself.

 

[Into the Night]

No, they are diesel electrics. That is, they have a diesel engine that drives a generator that produces electricity to drive the electric motor. That combination is highly efficient. The diesel is a good prime mover and the fuel it uses is far more flexible than batteries would be. The electric motor produces more torque than the diesel so is good for heavy vehicles.

Overhead line systems only work with lighter vehicles like city busses or smaller rail systems. That's because the amperage required rises significantly with load and would result in too heavy and complex a set of cables and contacting systems.

Overhead systems can work for heavy trains, and IS used to carry ore and such (a smaller rail system). The problem, of course, is that the electricity STILL has to be provided using power plants that burn coal, oil, or natural gas products anyway, or uses a nuke.

In the States, it really isn't practical in most cases except as light rail or rapid transit systems.

 

[Into the Night]

The heaviest cargo trains in the world are mostly overhead electric. Europe and more importantly Russia are heavily electrified. The Russians regularly move 5,000 ton trains with overhead electric.



Tell that to the Trans-Siberian Railway.

Repetition fallacy (chanting). You are making shit up too.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

The heaviest cargo trains in the world are mostly overhead electric. Europe and more importantly Russia are heavily electrified. The Russians regularly move 5,000 ton trains with overhead electric.

Tell that to the Trans-Siberian Railway.

That's not true. The heaviest cargo trains currently are long haul US, Chinese, Australian, and Brazilian ones. They can stretch for quite literally miles in length and weigh upwards 40,000 to 50,000 tons. They're almost uniformly pulled by multiple (as many as 9) diesel locomotives. None of these run on overhead electric.

The Trans-Siberian trains are usually fairly short and light by comparison.

 

[Nordberg]

With commercial vehicles, there are weight limits they have to meet when operating. The Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) is the weight of the vehicle and it's load. Batteries weigh far more than gasoline and result in reduced payloads. That means the cost per pound, ton, whatever of the payload will increase to offset the smaller amount being hauled per vehicle.

EVs do not weigh more than many ICEs. The heaviest vehicles are ICEs. Many commercial fleets are changing to EVs. Many already have.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

EVs do not weigh more than many ICEs. The heaviest vehicles are ICEs. Many commercial fleets are changing to EVs. Many already have.

Commercial vehicles are limited to GVW--Gross Vehicle Weight. That is, the weight of the vehicle + the load. Batteries weigh more than gasoline for the same range, a lot more. If say your GVW is limited to under 28,000 lbs., and the batteries add say 1000 lbs. to the vehicle weight without load, that means you carry 1000 lbs. less load.