Most EVs Cost More to Drive Than Their Gas-Powered Rivals:

[Poor Richard Saunders]

Nope. Much more than $5.

Care to tell us why the water to clean my panels costs more than $5?

You're not including the cost of all maintenance.

I keep asking you to tell us what maintenance has this cost you keep claiming exists and you have not been able to tell us anything that has a cost.
With auto maintenance, there is a cost to change the oil, a cost to replace brake pads, a cost to flush the radiator. Solar panels have nothing that needs to be regularly replaced or changed. All you can say is that the panels and wiring need to be checked. That costs nothing.

You think it's funny that you are reducing the lifespan of your solar panels?


No. It's reduced because you don't look at the wiring at all. It's also reduced because you're using hard water and detergent on the panels.

More of your stupidity. I am reducing the life of my panels by not washing them but I am also reducing the life of my panels by washing them. Do you reduce the life of your windows by washing them? Do you really want people to see how absolutely stupid you are. You are making sure they will be able to see it. Solar panels have a tempered glass panel on top of them. Do you know what tempered glass is? Do you really think that washing tempered glass reduces it's life?

I think it's funny that you can't back up your idiocy with any actual facts. You make statements that only Into the Night would make.

Your issue, not mine.


RQAA.


... which is preventative work.


YALSA. ( more "proof", right? )


I'm already well aware that you don't maintain your roof, just as you don't maintain your solar panels.


You didn't.


YABPA (Yet Another Bogus Position Assignment).

No maintenance plan was provided... only a few examples of maintenance items. It was not an all inclusive list. You are fully aware of this, yet wish to be dishonest anyway.

Of course you didn't provide a maintenance plan because to do so would reveal you don't know what you are talking about. Checking to see if squirrels have eaten into the wires doesn't cost me anything. You claimed I wasn't including COSTS of maintenance in my numbers. I asked you for a list of cost I didn't include and you can't provide what it could possible be. All you can do is whine and run away from answering. Your silly RQAA shows you are stupid and can't support your position.

That you did. You paid for your electricity usage up front, assuming that you didn't borrow any money and that 100% of the electricity that you use is generated from your solar panels.


Now you're changing numbers again (increasing the lifespan of your solar panels even though you don't properly maintain them).

No. I didn't. My panels have always had a lifespan that says they will produce 90% of their initial rating at 25 years. The 20 year number was from T.A. Gardner who said panels can't pay for themselves in 20 years. I showed they can pay for themselves in 20 years. The years from 20 to 25 are free to me since the panels were paid for after 16 years.

No you don't. You really SUCK at finances... and at logic.


You have no "that day's labor". You already spent it on the solar panels.

Says the Into the Night clone that can't provide any math or numbers. I will bet you have never had to buy equipment and figure out if it will pay for itself. You clearly didn't grow up on a farm and you clearly have never had to run a business. Do you live off your daddy's money or in your mommy's basement?

Bad logic - You haven't include all the costs but I can't tell you what costs you didn't include. (It seems you are the one with bad logic.)

I listed more examples than just the stock market. They are all relatively safe investments.

Provide your evidence that land and gold are safe investments. A safe investment can never go down in value. A volatile investment can go down. Land also comes with the cost of yearly property tax which you failed to include in your calculation of future value. (Hmmm - It seems you are the one that is failing to include costs.)

Yeah, you keep proving you are an idiot, over and over and over.

Obviously you have no idea what you are talking about.

You should look into a mirror and repeat that at least 3 times every morning.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

They only have to give a reasonable estimate based on the nameplate output of the panels.

No. They don't. They have to give an estimate based on the location, the likely sun for the year and the panels. This is required before they can even install them. They can't exceed 120% of my electrical use for the previous 2 years and they have to guarantee it will be close to that. They have to do a complete engineering analysis, submit it and have it approved.

 

[gfm7175]

Raising hay for cattle is farming, you moron.

Never said it wasn't, you moron.

How do you think alfalfa gets planted? How do you think the hay gets baled?

Farming.

But then you didn't seem to realize that you can't have alfalfa in the same field for 20 years and expect a decent yield. You have to rotate crops.

YABPA. Who said anything about having alfalfa in the same field for 20 years?

But then, what farmer is going to rent enough land to feed 4-8 cows per year?

A small farmer. Did you know that they might also have some other hayfields of their own nearby and that my four acre field simply acts as a bit extra for them?

It's a waste of their time when no herd is that small.

It's not a waste of time when it's simply added onto the other fields that the farmer already tends to.

The time needed to drive equipment to such a small field isn't worth it.

It's not an issue if the farmer lives nearby and/or has other fields nearby.

Why rent a 4 acre field when you can rent a 30 or 40 acre one. (Or rent 500 acres at a time.)

RQAA.

A "small" farmer might have 20-30 cows. Most dairy farms in WI are much larger than that. 100 cows or more is not uncommon.

What you describe here is a fairly common occurrence. So?

As to my never living in the country, I probably baled more hay by the time I was 14 than you have seen in your lifetime.

I don't believe you.

No farmer I know of and I have known many over the years

I don't believe you.

is going to rent a 4 acre field.

Sure they would. I've personally witnessed it.

It would be stupid for them to do that

Depends on the situation. It CAN benefit both the landowner and the farmer ... that's the whole point.

and farmers aren't nearly as stupid as I am.

You got THAT right!


Anyway, now that I've let you have your fun in running away from the solar panel discussion for a bit, let's return back to it and go through a short recap of it.

You spent over $22,000 on your rooftop solar panels (that you choose to perform essentially no maintenance on, and the bare bones maintenance that you DO perform is only further shortening the lifespan of your panels due to your usage of hard water and detergent) in order to pay for all of your electricity usage as a lump sum up front instead of paying for it on a monthly basis as you make use of it.

You pretend that you are making out like a bandit because you aren't making a monthly electric payment, but you ignore all the additional costs associated with your solar panel system beyond your initial purchase of the panels themselves. You also ignore how that lump sum of money could've been invested in a plethora of things to earn yourself even more money over the course of 20 years. That is a big part of how solar power is a money loser in the long run, and you are too stupid/ignorant/proud to realize this.

 

[gfm7175]

Since the solar company has to guarantee the amount of electricity that will be produced by the panels they do give a shit about location.

I've seen numerous panels put on rooftops that are in all sorts of directions and locations that are not optimal for sunlight exposure. The solar company doesn't care. They're just happy that you paid them for their product.

T.A. Gardner is right.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

Give me a name of someone willing to rent just 4 acres of land and for what purpose would they rent it if not for farming or hunting.

Hay for their cattle.

Raising hay for cattle is farming, you moron..

Never said it wasn't, you moron.

You did say it wasn't.
Now you are just going to lie and try to pretend you aren't lying?

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

YABPA. Who said anything about having alfalfa in the same field for 20 years?

LOL. I asked you how I could rent out 4 acres for 20 years to make money on it. Your only answer was hay. I guess you are too stupid to know that 20 years of hay means you would have that crop on your 4 acres for 20 years. E

A small farmer. Did you know that they might also have some other hayfields of their own nearby and that my four acre field simply acts as a bit extra for them?

LOL. Which one of those farmers was willing to sell you only 4 acres to begin with? No farmer would do that.

It's not a waste of time when it's simply added onto the other fields that the farmer already tends to.

Why did he sell 4 acres if they were already his fields?

It's not an issue if the farmer lives nearby and/or has other fields nearby.

Why did he sell 4 acres of those fields?

RQAA.

Thanks, Into the Night.

What you describe here is a fairly common occurrence. So?


I don't believe you.


I don't believe you.

You don't have to believe me. This is simply to an exercise to point out to any reader that isn't you that you are stupid and don't know what you are talking about.

Sure they would. I've personally witnessed it.

ROFLMAO. You have personally witnessed a farmer renting out a 4 acre piece of land? Was this about the same time you were abducted by aliens?

Depends on the situation. It CAN benefit both the landowner and the farmer ... that's the whole point.

Once again proving you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

You got THAT right!

Congratulations on violating the rules here. Do you need a time out?


Anyway, now that I've let you have your fun in running away from the solar panel discussion for a bit, let's return back to it and go through a short recap of it.

You spent over $22,000 on your rooftop solar panels (that you choose to perform essentially no maintenance on, and the bare bones maintenance that you DO perform is only further shortening the lifespan of your panels due to your usage of hard water and detergent) in order to pay for all of your electricity usage as a lump sum up front instead of paying for it on a monthly basis as you make use of it.

You pretend that you are making out like a bandit because you aren't making a monthly electric payment, but you ignore all the additional costs associated with your solar panel system beyond your initial purchase of the panels themselves. You also ignore how that lump sum of money could've been invested in a plethora of things to earn yourself even more money over the course of 20 years. That is a big part of how solar power is a money loser in the long run, and you are too stupid/ignorant/proud to realize this.

Let's start to count your lies.
1. I didn't spend over $22,000.
2. I didn't say I did nothing with my solar panels. I asked what maintenance costs were I not including in my numbers. You still haven't provided one maintenance item that would cost more than $10.
3. You claim using water on my solar panels reduce their life. Compared to what? Solar panels that get rained on?
4. You claim I use hard water. Rain water is harder than the water from my tap.
5. I never once claimed I was making out like a bandit. I was showing that my panels paid for themselves over time.
6. You have not provided a single cost that I didn't include. Provide the cost of what I am not including or admit you are simply lying.
7. You did not provide a single investment with a guaranteed return that would have matched the savings I am getting from having solar panels. You still haven't told me what farmer would be idiot enough to sell 4 acres of his land so he could turn around and rent it from me.
8. You have not provided any actual facts or math to dispute my math. Instead you simply made shit up about how gold is always a good investment while ignoring that the investment has to pay for the electricity to be an actual comparison.

 

[gfm7175]

Care to tell us why the water to clean my panels costs more than $5?

YABPA. BTW, the water alone would cost you more than $5 if you actually wanted to properly maintain your panels, but you've already shown this forum that you don't.

I keep asking you to tell us what maintenance has this cost you keep claiming exists and you have not been able to tell us anything that has a cost.

RQAA. Ignoring replies to you will not make them go away.

With auto maintenance, there is a cost to change the oil, a cost to replace brake pads, a cost to flush the radiator.

Okay.

Solar panels have nothing that needs to be regularly replaced or changed.

Solar panels DO require maintenance for maximum longevity, even if you choose to forego it.

All you can say is that the panels and wiring need to be checked.

I've said more than that. You sure do like to ignore all sorts of things.

That costs nothing.

There are costs involved, actually... but I'm already aware that you choose to ignore them. Apparently it's easier for you to cope that way.

More of your stupidity.

AllYourStupidityAreBelongToYou

I am reducing the life of my panels by not washing them

Yes.

but I am also reducing the life of my panels by washing them.

In the specific manner that you are washing them, yes.

Do you reduce the life of your windows by washing them?

Windows are not solar panels.

Do you really want people to see how absolutely stupid you are. You are making sure they will be able to see it.

Projection.

Solar panels have a tempered glass panel on top of them.

Some do, yes.

Do you know what tempered glass is?

Yes.

Do you really think that washing tempered glass reduces it's life?

Yes, if done improperly.

I think it's funny that you can't back up your idiocy with any actual facts.

Your issue, not mine.

You make statements that only Into the Night would make.

Yup, because I am Into The Night's sock... and IBDaMann's sock... and T.A. Gardner's sock... and Legion's sock... and coldjoint's sock... and SmarterThanYou's sock...

Of course you didn't provide a maintenance plan because to do so would reveal you don't know what you are talking about.

Why would I provide you with a maintenance plan? You don't maintain your solar panels anyway...

Checking to see if squirrels have eaten into the wires doesn't cost me anything.

Yes it does.

You claimed I wasn't including COSTS of maintenance in my numbers.

Right. You weren't. You decided to ignore all additional costs.

I asked you for a list of cost I didn't include and you can't provide what it could possible be.

RQAA. Ignoring responses to your repeated question does not make them go away.

All you can do is whine and run away from answering.

I've already answered multiple times, as have others, ergo the 'RQAA' response.

Your silly
RQAA shows you are stupid and can't support your position.

No. It shows that you keep asking the same question over and over again, ignoring all valid responses to it because you don't like them.

No. I didn't. My panels have always had a lifespan that says they will produce 90% of their initial rating at 25 years.

You won't get that long of a lifespan... especially since you don't even maintain your panels properly with the bare bones bit of maintenance that you DO claim to perform.

The 20 year number was from T.A. Gardner who said panels can't pay for themselves in 20 years.

He's right... they can't.

I showed they can pay for themselves in 20 years.

No, you didn't.

The years from 20 to 25 are free to me since the panels were paid for after 16 years.

No, they aren't. No, they weren't.

Says the Into the Night clone that can't provide any math or numbers.

Ignoring the math provided to you doesn't make it go away.

I will bet you have never had to buy equipment and figure out if it will pay for itself. You clearly didn't grow up on a farm and you clearly have never had to run a business. Do you live off your daddy's money or in your mommy's basement?

Projection.

Bad logic - You haven't include all the costs but I can't tell you what costs you didn't include. (It seems you are the one with bad logic.)

Ignoring the costs that have already been told to you does not make them go away. Those responses are still here on this forum for all to read.

Provide your evidence that land and gold are safe investments. A safe investment can never go down in value. A volatile investment can go down. Land also comes with the cost of yearly property tax which you failed to include in your calculation of future value. (Hmmm - It seems you are the one that is failing to include costs.)

Yeah, you keep proving you are an idiot, over and over and over.


You should look into a mirror and repeat that at least 3 times every morning.

RQAA. Continued blathering.

 

[gfm7175]

You did say it wasn't.
Now you are just going to lie and try to pretend you aren't lying?

No I didn't. You put unnecessary qualifications in your question and I ignored them.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

No I didn't. You put unnecessary qualifications in your question and I ignored them.

ROFLMAO. So you just are making shit up and can't provide answers. Thanks for clarifying nothing.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

YABPA. BTW, the water alone would cost you more than $5 if you actually wanted to properly maintain your panels, but you've already shown this forum that you don't.


RQAA. Ignoring replies to you will not make them go away.


Okay.


Solar panels DO require maintenance for maximum longevity, even if you choose to forego it.


I've said more than that. You sure do like to ignore all sorts of things.


There are costs involved, actually... but I'm already aware that you choose to ignore them. Apparently it's easier for you to cope that way.


AllYourStupidityAreBelongToYou


Yes.


In the specific manner that you are washing them, yes.


Windows are not solar panels.


Projection.


Some do, yes.


Yes.


Yes, if done improperly.


Your issue, not mine.


Yup, because I am Into The Night's sock... and IBDaMann's sock... and T.A. Gardner's sock... and Legion's sock... and coldjoint's sock... and SmarterThanYou's sock...


Why would I provide you with a maintenance plan? You don't maintain your solar panels anyway...


Yes it does.


Right. You weren't. You decided to ignore all additional costs.


RQAA. Ignoring responses to your repeated question does not make them go away.


I've already answered multiple times, as have others, ergo the 'RQAA' response.


No. It shows that you keep asking the same question over and over again, ignoring all valid responses to it because you don't like them.


You won't get that long of a lifespan... especially since you don't even maintain your panels properly with the bare bones bit of maintenance that you DO claim to perform.


He's right... they can't.


No, you didn't.


No, they aren't. No, they weren't.


Ignoring the math provided to you doesn't make it go away.


Projection.


Ignoring the costs that have already been told to you does not make them go away. Those responses are still here on this forum for all to read.


RQAA. Continued blathering.

Imagining costs that you can't tell anyone what they actually are doesn't make them real.
You have provided nothing for maintenance that would be a substantial cost. You did ignore the property tax in your future value property calculation which would be a substantial cost you ignored. You ignored the cost to store gold safely.
My water bill is $5 per 1,000 gallons of water. It doesn't take 10 gallons to wash my solar panels. Claiming it would cost me more than $5 is ridiculous on your part.
My solar panels have a tempered glass cover. Washing them is exactly the same as washing a window. Both are glass. Both can be washed with water and the water doesn't damage the glass.

Keep up the ipse dixit bullshit without providing any support. It only reveals to everyone reading this how stupid you are.

This is what you claimed was required for maintenance. It has no cost to it. It's right there for everyone to read.
https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...heir-Gas-Powered-Rivals&p=5738208#post5738208

Maintenance of solar panels includes but is not limited to:
** regular cleaning of panels
** regular inspection of panels and wiring for defects/deterioration
** regular inspection of mounts/frames/nuts/bolts for issues
** monitoring performance over time

Clearly you didn't provide a maintenance list that has a substantial cost. But keep trying to pretend you did. It only reveals your stupidity to everyone that reads this.

 

[gfm7175]

LOL.

A sure sign of “intelligence”… per usual.

I asked you how I could rent out 4 acres for 20 years to make money on it. Your only answer was hay. I guess you are too stupid to know that 20 years of hay means you would have that crop on your 4 acres for 20 years.

I gave you one of many possibilities.

LOL. Which one of those farmers was willing to sell you only 4 acres to begin with? No farmer would do that.

YABPA.

Why did he sell 4 acres if they were already his fields?

YABPA.

Why did he sell 4 acres of those fields?

YABPA. You don’t also go by ‘tmiddles’ by any chance, do you?

Thanks, Into the Night.

You’re welcome, tmiddles.

You don't have to believe me. This is simply to an exercise to point out to any reader that isn't you that you are stupid and don't know what you are talking about.

Projection.

ROFLMAO. You have personally witnessed a farmer renting out a 4 acre piece of land? Was this about the same time you were abducted by aliens?

YABPA.

Once again proving you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Projection.

Congratulations on violating the rules here. Do you need a time out?

Congratulations on being too stupid to read and comprehend the forum rules. Damo would enjoy a good laugh if you wish to report me for my perfect following of Rule #16. No wonder people like you wish to go after Trump for his "perfect phone call #1" and "perfect phone call #2"...

Anyway, now that I've let you have your fun in running away from the solar panel discussion for a bit, let's return back to it and go through a short recap of it.

Projection.

Let's start to count your lies.

Projection.

1. I didn't spend over $22,000.

You said you spent $22,000 on the solar panels alone. You left off all other costs, ergo “over $22,000”

2. I didn't say I did nothing with my solar panels.

You indirectly said it.

I asked what maintenance costs were I not including in my numbers.

By means of asking this question, you’re admitting that you don’t maintain your solar panels.

You still haven't provided one maintenance item that would cost more than $10.

Continued ignoring of examples provided.

3. You claim using water on my solar panels reduce their life. Compared to what? Solar panels that get rained on?

Continued bogus position assignment. You obviously wish to continue being dishonest. That’s your issue, not mine.

4. You claim I use hard water. Rain water is harder than the water from my tap.

5. I never once claimed I was making out like a bandit. I was showing that my panels paid for themselves over time.

You showed no such thing. You didn’t include maintenance costs. You didn’t include the money that could’ve been made from investing the $22K instead of buying solar panels with it.

6. You have not provided a single cost that I didn't include. Provide the cost of what I am not including or admit you are simply lying.

RQAA. See above. See past responses.

7. You did not provide a single investment with a guaranteed return that would have matched the savings I am getting from having solar panels. You still haven't told me what farmer would be idiot enough to sell 4 acres of his land so he could turn around and rent it from me.

YABPA x2. There is no “guaranteed return” nor is one necessary.

8. You have not provided any actual facts or math to dispute my math. Instead you simply made shit up about how gold is always a good investment while ignoring that the investment has to pay for the electricity to be an actual comparison.

Continued purposeful ignoring… Continued bogus position assignments… Continued unnecessary requirements…

 

[gfm7175]

Imagining costs that you can't tell anyone what they actually are doesn't make them real.
You have provided nothing for maintenance that would be a substantial cost. You did ignore the property tax in your future value property calculation which would be a substantial cost you ignored. You ignored the cost to store gold safely.
My water bill is $5 per 1,000 gallons of water. It doesn't take 10 gallons to wash my solar panels. Claiming it would cost me more than $5 is ridiculous on your part.
My solar panels have a tempered glass cover. Washing them is exactly the same as washing a window. Both are glass. Both can be washed with water and the water doesn't damage the glass.

Keep up the ipse dixit bullshit without providing any support. It only reveals to everyone reading this how stupid you are.

This is what you claimed was required for maintenance. It has no cost to it. It's right there for everyone to read.
https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...heir-Gas-Powered-Rivals&p=5738208#post5738208


Clearly you didn't provide a maintenance list that has a substantial cost. But keep trying to pretend you did. It only reveals your stupidity to everyone that reads this.

Continued ignoring of answers provided to you... continued chanting...

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

Continued ignoring of answers provided to you... continued chanting...

Thanks, Into the Night.

 

[Nordberg]

Another false thread. EVs are much cheaper to run and maintain than ICEs.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Another false thread. EVs are much cheaper to run and maintain than ICEs.

Study Calculates EVs Have Higher 'Real World Refueling Cost' Than Gas Vehicles
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a38043667/study-electric-cars-higher-cost-questions/

Comparison: Real World Cost of
Fueling EVs and ICE Vehicles
Electric vehicles can be more expensive to fuel
than their internal combustion engine counterparts
https://www.andersoneconomicgroup.c...10/EVtransition_FuelingCostStudy_10-21-21.pdf

Shocking study finds EVs cost more to fuel than gas cars in late 2022 — here are 3 easy ways to save cash no matter what you drive
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/electric-shock-study-found-evs-150000536.html

Gas-Powered Cars Cheaper to Fuel than Electric in Late 2022
https://www.andersoneconomicgroup.com/cars-gas-powered-cheaper-to-fuel-than-electric-in-late-2022/

Upside Down: Study Reveals EVs Cost More to Drive Than Gas-Powered
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/upside-down-study-finds-evs-cost-more-to-drive-than-gas-powered/

 

[gfm7175]

Another false thread. EVs are much cheaper to run and maintain than ICEs.

Keep chanting away, Nordy.

Let me know when you wish to have an honest discussion about it.

 

[Into the Night]

Fallacy fallacy.
The fallacy fallacy occurs when Into the Night claims other posters are committing fallacies while not explaining why the alleged fallacy occurs. Into The Night does this to try to appear smarter than he actually is.

...annnnnd back to your denial of logic and chanting.

I have trees where I live. I also have gravity where I live. I also have sunshine where I live.

Good for you. Fixation.

Solar panels are placed where they can receive sunshine as much as possible.

Usually.

That means the solar panels are not placed under trees. Tree sap is affected by gravity, It drops straight to the ground. It doesn't move sideways 50 feet.

Sap moves sideways. It doesn't necessarily drop straight down.

Because of these simple facts, my trees don't drop sap on my solar panels. My solar panels are also on my roof. The closest tree to my roof only extends about 10' above my solar panels and is about 30' from the closest solar panel.

Close enough. You probably have some sap on them already.

This allows all my solar panels to still get sunshine on the longest day of the year and not be shaded. The chances of my solar panels getting sap on them are pretty close to zero.

You probably already have sap on them as well as other debris from the nearby tree.

Only an idiot like you would put solar panels under a tree. No one else would put their solar panels in a shaded area.

I don't have solar panels nor do I want them. You seem to fail to understand that.

 

[Into the Night]

Fallacy fallacy.
The fallacy fallacy occurs when Into the Night claims other posters are committing fallacies while not explaining why the alleged fallacy occurs. Into the Night does this to try to appear smarter than he actually is.

It's easy to tell when Into the Night has run out of arguments because he resorts to calling every argument a fallacy.

Inversion fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

When you buy solar panels, the first thing they check are the trees before they install them. Rightys think solar people are wandering in the dark.

So you admit that people buying solar panels are politically motivated to do so...to show off that they are 'saving the planet', or something like that.

 

[Into the Night]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/clim...ce-vs-gasoline/?itid=hp_most-read_p008_f006_4

Is it cheaper to refuel your EV battery or gas tank? We did the math in all 50 states.


Savings per vehicle type and state per fill up for comparable miles.
StateTruckSUVSedan
Washington $80 $49 $59
Oregon $71 $43 $53
Nevada $57 $35 $44
Idaho $57 $35 $43
Utah $55 $34 $42
California $53 $33 $43
Arizona $50 $31 $39
Montana $50 $31 $38
Wyoming $48 $30 $37
Illinois $47 $29 $37

Base rate fallacy. TANSTAAFL.
Special pleading fallacy. The costs of driving an EV are more than just recharging it, Poorboy.