Most EVs Cost More to Drive Than Their Gas-Powered Rivals:

[Into the Night]

0 x 8% is ZERO.

LOL. How do you pay your electric bill if your money for that purpose is tied up in land? Do you sell off 20 sq ft of land per month? How do you find a buyer for such a small amount? This is about paying your electric bill. If you invest in something that isn't liquid enough to sell some each month then the only thing you have done is something stupid.

I have power day and night. You don't.

 

[Into the Night]

You didn't describe maintenance costs.

Yes I did, liar.

No one would put solar panels under a tree but you.

Happens quite often for rooftop installations. I don't buy solar panels, dope.

I certainly didn't put my solar panels under a tree because I understand that trees provide shade.

At least in the summer. Many trees provide no shade in winter.

Have you ever actually seen a tree?

I live in the PNW, dope.

Do you understand how light works?

Far better than you, dope. You deny the Planck's laws and the Stefan-Boltzmann law.

Light doesn't go through opaque objects. A tree is considered an opaque object.

WRONG. A tree is considered a translucent object.

I have to walk around my roof to maintain it?

That's right.

Do you know what a roof is? Do you know how roofs work? Clearly not.

I've built several, and sealed them from weather. I know what it takes to build a solid roof and to maintain it.

Not only that you don't seem to understand how solar panels rarely cover an entire roof.

But you can't walk where they are located. So you have a smaller installation. Gotit.

My solar panels take up less than 30% of my roof so I can walk on my roof any time I want.

Ooooo. You REALLY have a small installation!

I hope you maintain your roof properly by nailing the shingles down every year with at least 10 - 16 penny nails per shingle!!!

That is not maintaining a roof properly. That damages the roof and shingles. Obviously, you've never built or maintained a roof.

 

[Into the Night]

Clearly you must maintain your solar panels. How much does it cost you per month?

I don't have solar panels. I don't want them. They are waste of money.

 

[Into the Night]

That means my decision to put up solar panels is even better because electricity costs are going to go up so much that I will be saving even more money by not having to pay for it.

And you have no power at night.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

Yes I did, liar.

Happens quite often for rooftop installations. I don't buy solar panels, dope.

At least in the summer. Many trees provide no shade in winter.

I live in the PNW, dope.

Far better than you, dope. You deny the Planck's laws and the Stefan-Boltzmann law.

WRONG. A tree is considered a translucent object.

That's right.

I've built several, and sealed them from weather. I know what it takes to build a solid roof and to maintain it.

But you can't walk where they are located. So you have a smaller installation. Gotit.

Ooooo. You REALLY have a small installation!

That is not maintaining a roof properly. That damages the roof and shingles. Obviously, you've never built or maintained a roof.

Into The Night doesn't understand sarcasm. Nor can he provide evidence of how he maintains a roof.
Into The Night also seems to think trees are planted on roofs.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

And you have no power at night.

I have plenty of power at night.
I sell power to the utility during the day when they need it and I buy that power back at night when I need it. Win, win!!!

 

[T. A. Gardner]

I just spent $22,000 for 25 years of electricity that you are telling me would cost me $50,000 if I bought it instead of generated it. Who is the stupid person here?

You. You have no concept of the time value of money, or what an investment versus an expense is.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

I have plenty of power at night.
I sell power to the utility during the day when they need it and I buy that power back at night when I need it. Win, win!!!

No, you sell your piddling miniscule amount of power to a utility that doesn't give a fuck about it, but is forced to buy it because the government says so. That just duplicates their own generating plants on the large scale meaning that they have to raise rates on the power they do sell to cover the FACT that home solar, like yours, idles a generation plant that still has to be paid for, the crew paid for, etc.

It's a lose, lose situation.

This time it shows you have ZERO concept how large generation and distribution systems work.

 

[gfm7175]

You haven't told me what maintenance I am neglecting.

By way of this response, you're admitting that you're neglecting ALL maintenance on it.

What maintenance do you think needs to occur? Do I need to change the solar belt every year? Do I need to adjust the prisms? Do I need to invert the inverters every other month so they stay inverted? Surely you can tell us since you are such an expert on solar panels.

Maintenance of solar panels includes but is not limited to:
** regular cleaning of panels
** regular inspection of panels and wiring for defects/deterioration
** regular inspection of mounts/frames/nuts/bolts for issues
** monitoring performance over time

Oh.. I can just wash them?

There's more to maintaining solar panels than that...

Hmm.. That is so expensive. It costs me less than an hour and 10 cents worth of water and detergent.

Uh oh..... You're further decreasing the performance and lifespan of your solar panels now.

Maintenance is almost nothing.

IF you neglect almost all of it, then sure, it's "almost nothing"...

Repair because of damage is not maintenance.

Yes it is.

While a distinction can be made between preventative work vs restorative work, such a distinction is ultimately irrelevant because both of them go hand in hand in keeping an item in working order. Both of them are expenses beyond the initial cost of purchase with regard to your solar panels.

What maintenance is required on an annual or even a 5 year basis?

RQAA.

What maintenance do I need to do to my roof? Do I need to renail the shingles every year? Do I need to change the shingle belt? How about if I sweep the shingles to get all the sand off them?

Obviously you don't maintain your roof either.

Oh. I can just check to see if any of them blew off in the last wind storm and then do repairs if they are damaged? Wow.. that check takes me about 10 minutes and the shingles are rated for 100 mph winds so no damage yet.

How would you know? You don't even maintain your roof.

Gee... so now you are saying I need to sell land every month to pay my electrical bill instead of annually? How does that work in your scenario where you suggested I could just buy land and get a better return? How do I only sell $100 worth of land?

Never said any such thing. You really DO love your bogus position assignments. I've seen you do that to others too. You are a very dishonest person, and apparently a careless one too if you don't bother with maintaining your solar panels and roof.

Now you are cheating and using other money.

There is no "other money". I already have that money from my job.

I guess that would mean I am free to pay the $22,000 up front and then put what I would have spent on electricity into an investment and I still come out ahead because by doing a monthly savings I don't have to worry about timing the market. Dollar cost averaging is the recommended way to invest.

There is no "what [Moron Richard Saunders] would have spent on electricity"... You already spent over $22,000 on electricity (you paid an up-front lump sum to a solar panel company rather than making interest free monthly payments to a utility company).

You have to pay your electric bill if you aren't generating your own electricity. You clearly haven't run the numbers if you think the electric bill can go unpaid.

Another bogus position assignment on your part. I've already told you that I'm making monthly payments for electricity, and that the monthly payment amounts to less than a day's labor (after taxes). Plus, I still have the $22,000 in my savings account that I can make investments with. You don't. You needed to remove it from your savings account in order to pay for your solar panels ("electricity").

ROFLMAO. I really want to know what maintenance you do for your roof and what maintenance you suggest for the solar panels. I'll bet you won't tell us. I'll bet you have never put a shingle on any building let alone done maintenance on a roof.
Redoing the flashing on a chimney has nothing to do with solar panels.

RQAA. You've already been told.

You haven't told me where I could get guaranteed return. My return on the solar panels is guaranteed.

There is no "return".

None of your examples guarantee a return and all could have resulted in my losing the money before 20 years was up.

All of my examples were of rather safe investments.

What land are you buying for $22,000 in 2022 that will allow you to use it and make money off it?

I already told you.

Farm Land in Wisconsin is about $5,400 an acre.

Depends on where in Wisconsin you purchase it, but okay let's use that value.

How am I going to make money on a farm of 4 acres?

I said nothing about a farm. I said land. There are plenty of ways to make money off of a 4 acre lot of land. Obviously you've never lived in the country.

I would have to own farm equipment

Not necessary.

and I certainly can't rent it and make money on 4 acres.

Yes you could.

It seems you are ignorant about many things.

Your issue, not mine.

For $22,000 I can't even buy 10 acres hunting land in WI.

Irrelevant.

Now you are saying I have to spend more time on upkeep on my land than I ever will on my solar panels. Isn't time money?

Yet another bogus position assignment.

 

[Into the Night]

Into The Night doesn't understand sarcasm.

You aren't making sarcasm.

Nor can he provide evidence of how he maintains a roof.

I have all the evidence I need. A solid roof. Too bad you can't see it on a forum!

Into The Night also seems to think trees are planted on roofs.

Wordstuffing. I never said any such thing, Poorboy.

 

[Trumpet]

Into the Scum is back on troll patrol.

 

[Stringfellow Hawk]

And they should be subsidized, so therefore they are very competitive.

There is no denying that fossil fuels enjoy massive, MASSIVE subsidies year over year, but they have decades of subsidies also built in to their legacy infrastructure.

What we should never do, is deny new and better technologies the same type of subsidies, thus locking in older and worse technologies for decades beyond them being able to compete fairly, as the old ones are the only ones enjoying subsidies. That harms all of us.

They would have to be free to be remotely competitive. If one had to replace the battery out of warranty then that would need to be free as well.

 

[gfm7175]

Into the Scum is back on troll patrol.

Nah. That's you with this post right here.

 

[Trumpet]

Nah. That's you with this post right here.

Are you Into the Scum in disguise?????

 

[gfm7175]

Are you Into the Scum in disguise?????

Oh YES!!! DEFINITELY!!!

You got me good, alright...

As a prize, you win FREE ELECTRICITY!!! You need only pay upwards of $22,000 up front and wha-blam! FREE!

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

You. You have no concept of the time value of money, or what an investment versus an expense is.

OK. Let's see your math showing that $22,000 today has a value of $50,000 over the next 18 years.

I already used the time value of money in my calculations that you have not been able to refute. What do you think inflation is?

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

No, you sell your piddling miniscule amount of power to a utility that doesn't give a fuck about it, but is forced to buy it because the government says so. That just duplicates their own generating plants on the large scale meaning that they have to raise rates on the power they do sell to cover the FACT that home solar, like yours, idles a generation plant that still has to be paid for, the crew paid for, etc.

It's a lose, lose situation.

This time it shows you have ZERO concept how large generation and distribution systems work.

LOL. Thanks for playing T.A. Gardner has no clue about utilities or the cost of electrical generation.

 

[Trumpet]

Oh YES!!! DEFINITELY!!!

You got me good, alright...

As a prize, you win FREE ELECTRICITY!!! You need only pay upwards of $22,000 up front and wha-blam! FREE!

I can see that you are a wackadoo.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

By way of this response, you're admitting that you're neglecting ALL maintenance on it.


Maintenance of solar panels includes but is not limited to:
** regular cleaning of panels
** regular inspection of panels and wiring for defects/deterioration
** regular inspection of mounts/frames/nuts/bolts for issues
** monitoring performance over time


There's more to maintaining solar panels than that...

OMG.. That cost to do that is about $5.

Did you forget your claim that I didn't include the cost of all that maintenance?
It seems the cost of maintenance is less than the cost of making an investment over 20 years.

Uh oh..... You're further decreasing the performance and lifespan of your solar panels now.


IF you neglect almost all of it, then sure, it's "almost nothing"...

ROFLMAO. The lifespan is reduced because I didn't look at the wiring today? How big of an idiot are you?

Yes it is.

While a distinction can be made between preventative work vs restorative work, such a distinction is ultimately irrelevant because both of them go hand in hand in keeping an item in working order. Both of them are expenses beyond the initial cost of purchase with regard to your solar panels.

What preventative work? You just pointed out that maintenance is cleaning and looking at the system for problems.

RQAA.

Thanks Into the Night.

Obviously you don't maintain your roof either.


How would you know? You don't even maintain your roof.

ROFLMAO. Uh uh.. I didn't put a single nail into my roof this year and I didn't check the shingle belt and replace that.

Never said any such thing. You really DO love your bogus position assignments. I've seen you do that to others too. You are a very dishonest person, and apparently a careless one too if you don't bother with maintaining your solar panels and roof.


There is no "other money". I already have that money from my job.

You claimed I didn't include the cost of maintaining my panels. Now you have provided a maintenance plan that has ZERO cost.

There is no "what [Moron Richard Saunders] would have spent on electricity"... You already spent over $22,000 on electricity (you paid an up-front lump sum to a solar panel company rather than making interest free monthly payments to a utility company).

I made an interest free payment up front and end up not having to pay $35,000 for the next 25 years. That means I have $35,000 to do other stuff with.

Another bogus position assignment on your part. I've already told you that I'm making monthly payments for electricity, and that the monthly payment amounts to less than a day's labor (after taxes). Plus, I still have the $22,000 in my savings account that I can make investments with. You don't. You needed to remove it from your savings account in order to pay for your solar panels ("electricity").

By purchasing solar panels I cna now use that day's labor to go drink a beer, go to a ballgame, spend time at the lake cabin.

RQAA. You've already been told.

Thanks, Into the Night.

There is no "return".


All of my examples were of rather safe investments.

I already showed you they aren't safe investments since they require a one time payment that may be at the high point of the market and then require regular withdrawals to pay for electricity.

I already told you.


Depends on where in Wisconsin you purchase it, but okay let's use that value.


I said nothing about a farm. I said land. There are plenty of ways to make money off of a 4 acre lot of land. Obviously you've never lived in the country.


Not necessary.

Obviously you have never owned land you want to rent out. Care to tell us how I am to make money off a plot of land I pay $22,000 for? It isn't enough money to buy a lot in most places in WI. It would only buy me 4 acres of farmland. It would not buy even 10 acres of hunting land. In order to get monthly payments for my land, the land has to be useful in some way. What way can I rent it out since you are so knowledgeable?

Yes you could.


Your issue, not mine.

Give me a name of someone willing to rent just 4 acres of land and for what purpose would they rent it if not for farming or hunting.

Irrelevant.


Yet another bogus position assignment.

Aren't you cute with the way you can't provide any support for any of your claims? Does your cat love you when you are that cute?

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

You aren't making sarcasm.

I have all the evidence I need. A solid roof. Too bad you can't see it on a forum!

Wordstuffing. I never said any such thing, Poorboy.

One doesn't make sarcasm. One uses sarcasm. But that also requires the ability to use one's brain. Something you seem to be lacking.

Funny thing, my roof is solid and doesn't leak. I wonder why that is. Is it because I don't spend $10,000 a year on maintenance like you want us to believe you do.

How can solar panels on a roof be UNDER a tree unless the tree is ALSO on the roof? It seems you don't understand some simple things about how trees and roofs work or how solar panels have to be placed so they work.