My fair share

Desh said:
They are recording the impact on school funding. It takes money out of the system and they end up making up for it in property taxes.
Click to expand...

Again, that article was referring to special ed kids.

Second.... that article also stated that their state income tax also went DOWN.... a point you continue to ignore.

Third... you also ignore the fact that it is the Milwaukee Public School Superintendant making that statement that taxes are adversely effected.

Fourth... you ignore the fact that Milwaukee property taxes have been going up every year anyway.

Fifth... you ignore the fact that the Federal government spends the same amount in taxes per kid whether they attend public or private schools. So if Milwaukee Public Schools are pushing Milwaukee County to raise taxes.... it is reflective of how they are run and not reflective of the voucher program.
 
Desh said:
what did NCLB have to do with this result?
Click to expand...

Who the hell mentioned NCLB?

I was citing YOUR ARTICLE... the one you point to when you say there is no difference in standardized test scores also points the above out. That the private schools develop more well rounded students, capable of better critical thinking skills. Hence the difference on the SAT scores. The point they state your "center" tries to downplay (and so do you apparently)
 
Desh said:
They are recording the impact on school funding. It takes money out of the system and they end up making up for it in property taxes.
Click to expand...

Yes, it takes money out of the system desh.... but it also takes the students out of the system..... and AGAIN... show me the actual numbers of property tax increases that are a direct result of the voucher program and compare it to the average DECLINE in state income taxes.

You continue to ignore that YOUR ARTICLE in the very same sentence says that state income taxes DECLINED at the same time as those property tax increases.
 
What does it matter what schools the vouchers are used for?


Dont you think that guy has an idea of the cost of funding for his district?

they have been going up for what reasons? this guy says the study vindicated his statements.

The fed may pay the same but the schools get less.
 
NCLB is teaching kids to take tests.

It was not an improvement. Im talking about doing things to improve schools. I dont think vouchers do that either.
 
Desh said:
What does it matter what schools the vouchers are used for?


Dont you think that guy has an idea of the cost of funding for his district?

they have been going up for what reasons? this guy says the study vindicated his statements.

The fed may pay the same but the schools get less.
Click to expand...

Of course he is going to make that claim... because his schools suck in comparison and are thus losing more students.... which means that MPS has to close schools...which they have done... which means public school teachers are getting canned... which pisses off groups like your Center for Education... because they are beholden to the DoEducation and the obvious influence the teachers union has there.

But bottom line is this... with fewer students... it also means they have less expense as well. A point you are ignoring.
 
Desh said:
NCLB is teaching kids to take tests.

It was not an improvement. Im talking about doing things to improve schools. I dont think vouchers do that either.
Click to expand...

NO... the teachers in the public schools are teaching them to take the standardized tests.

The teachers in the private schools are teaching the kids to take the same tests AS WELL AS teaching them better critical thinking skills.

NCLB does have standard testing... but it does not require schools to ONLY teach that material. Obviously the private schools are capable of doing so... why not the public schools?
 
Because the private schools can kick out anyone who is bringing down the averages.

Now it seems that even with this fact they barely do better than pubilc schools.

Do you think parents that have to Pay for schools make sure their kids keep up moreso than the public school kids parents do?
 
Desh said:
Because the private schools can kick out anyone who is bringing down the averages.

Now it seems that even with this fact they barely do better than pubilc schools.

Do you think parents that have to Pay for schools make sure their kids keep up moreso than the public school kids parents do?
Click to expand...

LMAO.... show me evidence that the private schools are kicking out kids with lower test scores.

According to YOUR article Desh, the private schools do better on issues beyond the standard tests.

Every parent pays for school via taxes.

But yes, I do believe that parents who see the cost, whether they pay for it or use the voucher to pay for it are going to be more active in their kids education. I believe it is a direct result of seeing just how much that "free education" costs. I think parents should get the same vouchers if they send their kids to public schools so that they can better understand the actual costs incurred to send their kid to school.

The above portion on increased parental involvement is simply my opinion.
 
Superfreak said:
So? If you take the $8k (or whatever the number is) that the government pays for a kid to attend public school and send it to the school of choice.... then that parents tax dollars are going to the educational system they prefer. Would you prefer the same old no-bid contract our public school system has had in place for decades?
Click to expand...
Along with my tax dollars and lots of other peoples tax dollars. Like I have said over and over and over again. I have no problem with you getting YOUR tax dollars back but you want mine and a bunch of other peoples as well. That makes it welfare. If you want all private schools get your legislature to get rid of their state funded public education system. But don't ask for MY money to put YOUR kid through school which is what vouchers do. And it is for schools in most places that teach the earth is 8000 years old and there was a talking snake and that Jesus bodily flew UP to heaven even though at some point he just went into outer space, if you buy all that shtuff.
 
Socrtease said:
Along with my tax dollars and lots of other peoples tax dollars. Like I have said over and over and over again. I have no problem with you getting YOUR tax dollars back but you want mine and a bunch of other peoples as well. That makes it welfare. If you want all private schools get your legislature to get rid of their state funded public education system. But don't ask for MY money to put YOUR kid through school which is what vouchers do. And it is for schools in most places that teach the earth is 8000 years old and there was a talking snake and that Jesus bodily flew UP to heaven even though at some point he just went into outer space, if you buy all that shtuff.
Click to expand...

1) I do not have kids

2) You are sadly mistaken. The government pays "x" dollars for a kid to attend school. What the hell does it matter if they give that "x" dollars to a public school or a private school? Let the parent decide which to give it to. If the government is going to pay $8k per student to go to a public school, then allow the parent to decide if they would prefer that $8k going to a private school. The same amount of money is being used regardless of which school the kid goes to.

3) You and I are paying for other peoples kids to go to school reagardless. Just like past generations paid for us to go to school (assuming you went public).
 
I have already shown you that the voucher system cause tax raises in the area they have been the longest in exsistance.

They also provided no proof of better schooling.
 
And I am fine with paying for public education where I know my tax money is not teaching kids about talking snakes, and jesus flying and dinosaurs living with humans all on big happy planet. But even more than that, If the Public Schools in Uray are failing where are the kids going to go to school. Silverton? You gonna put em in a car or bus and ship them there in the dead of winter? Or do parents have to endure the moving cost as well INSTEAD of MAKING their state improve learning. I went to Public School, had a C average primarily because I was bored, and then got a 1532 on my SAT and a 33 on the ACT. I did well on the tests because my parents were involved in my education, I read alot and I was active in extra-cirricular activities. I agree with you that public school should not be a shared experience and that children should be pushed, but they should also be tracked. Tracking might have worked against me as a kid but we could create a system that is better than the German system that gives kids more chances to move up (and down) in the system. But probably the worst complaint I have about public schools is they teach to the lowest common denominator. They no longer challenge kids to compete, hell some school systems have eliminated Spelling B's because they don't want there to be just ONE winner. But all of these problems can be fixed within the system.
 
Desh said:
I have already shown you that the voucher system cause tax raises in the area they have been the longest in exsistance.

They also provided no proof of better schooling.
Click to expand...

For the final time Desh... that article stated that PROPERTY taxes went up and State income taxes went DOWN.

WHAT PART OF STATE INCOME TAXES WENT DOWN ARE YOU NOT COMPREHENDING DESH?

Second... YOUR ARTICLE ALSO stated that while the standardized tests were the same, the SAT scores were not. IT stated quite clearly that the private schools taught BEYOND the standardized test materials.

But please, continue to cherry pick your own articles. It shows how dishonest you are on this topic.
 
Socrtease said:
And I am fine with paying for public education where I know my tax money is not teaching kids about talking snakes, and jesus flying and dinosaurs living with humans all on big happy planet. But even more than that, If the Public Schools in Uray are failing where are the kids going to go to school. Silverton? You gonna put em in a car or bus and ship them there in the dead of winter? Or do parents have to endure the moving cost as well INSTEAD of MAKING their state improve learning. I went to Public School, had a C average primarily because I was bored, and then got a 1532 on my SAT and a 33 on the ACT. I did well on the tests because my parents were involved in my education, I read alot and I was active in extra-cirricular activities. I agree with you that public school should not be a shared experience and that children should be pushed, but they should also be tracked. Tracking might have worked against me as a kid but we could create a system that is better than the German system that gives kids more chances to move up (and down) in the system. But probably the worst complaint I have about public schools is they teach to the lowest common denominator. They no longer challenge kids to compete, hell some school systems have eliminated Spelling B's because they don't want there to be just ONE winner. But all of these problems can be fixed within the system.
Click to expand...


AND If I am paying for someone else's kid to be taught... I have no problem with the parents deciding who is to teach them. I have just as much a problem with the tax dollars being used to teach to the lowest common denominator and to be restricted to the idiocy of the public education system as I do with the money being spent to teach intelligent design etc...

As long as the kids are:

1) living up to the same standardized tests as the public schools

and

2) can show increased abilities to further their education, then I care not if they are taught about Jesus flying etc...

As for the last part of your post.... I agree that all of the problems COULD be fixed within the system. But they are NOT being fixed. Hence the need for competition.

Side note.... not all of these private schools are religious in orientation. Most of the private schools in Milwaukee for example are charter schools. There were at least 8 in the greater Milwaukee area. This is where many of the inner city kids CHOSE to go
 
Desh said:
The vouchers are unproven and you wnat to pretend they are proven.
Click to expand...

Tell me Desh... if they are unproven... then why is it that the MPS school system is losing so many students to parents CHOOSING to use the voucher program?

At worst.... they are teaching them at the same level. But according to your article, the private schools are teaching them better when it comes to prepping them for more critical thinking. AS STATED BY YOUR ARTICLE.

The only one pretending here is you desh. You continue to ignore what the very articles you posted say.
 
How about this for an idea:

I will give you your share of taxes which have gone to support the Iraq war.

YOU give me MY share of taxes that have gone to social assistance programs that I object to.

Want to guess which will be higher?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top