Asking for a single example from you answers the question EXACTLY. If you can provide a single, absolute truth, your argument would have some weight. Until then, it doesn't.
My paper on ethics
- Thread starter Kess
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Asking for a single example from you answers the question EXACTLY. If you can provide a single, absolute truth, your argument would have some weight. Until then, it doesn't.
ThatOwlWoman
Leftist Vermin
Why do you want to believe that there is such a thing as an absolute truth? Curious.
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You’re debating the truth of that premise, aren’t you? Comprende?
Or are you using my claim as the only absolute truth? Irony abounds!
I hesitate to comment further, Kess, because you still have not replied to my calling attention to the poor start of your supposedly scholarly essay...the number agreement of "ethics" and "are" in its very first sentence.
But...I'll take a second bite of the apple...by dealing with your first paragraph (forgetting about the grammatical mistake.)
Ethics is the study of moral principles...and moral principles ARE OPINIONS. They often change from person to person...and from legal structure to legal structure. They change from society to society; from culture to culture; from individual to individual; from yesterday to today.
Granted there are some immutable truths. 2+2=4 in base ten will always be 2+2=4 in base ten. A circle has no angles; a triangle cannot have four corners....and such.
BUT...moral principles???
C'mon.
Whatever it is you are trying to do with this essay (that is not clear at all)...you are starting it with an arbitrary, self-serving "P1"...apparently in order to arrive at a "C" that you have in mind. (I have no idea of what your "P2" is, so I have no idea of what the "C' is for which you are striving."
Why not clear that up?
Otherwise, "your essay" just seems like a word salad aiming at "see how smart I am" rather than toward some true scholarship.
You’re debating the truth of that premise, aren’t you? Comprende?
Or are you using my claim as the only absolute truth? Irony abounds!
Yes, the example of an absolute truth is that absolute truths necessarily exist, such as my bolded statement. The premise I am arguing for is self evidently true.
However I would point out that it is not the only one. The truth value of all analytic statements can be known as I began to explain. Synthetic statements could also be about absolutely truths, however our ability to determine their truth value would depend on true premises and a valid argument.
My challenge to you still stands.
"Self evidently true"? To whom? You?
"truth value would depend on true premises and a valid argument" Perhaps. But you have provided neither.
I'm still waiting for you to provide a single example of an absolute truth. Other than mine, of course.
If they exist, you must have many, don't you?
ThatOwlWoman
Leftist Vermin
Kess, Frank is correct when he stated that "Ethics is the study of moral principles...and moral principles ARE OPINIONS. They often change from person to person...and from legal structure to legal structure. They change from society to society; from culture to culture; from individual to individual; from yesterday to today."
Please explain why you feel that "absolute truths necessarily exist." Why would this be so?
Please explain why you feel that "absolute truths necessarily exist." Why would this be so?
ThatOwlWoman, for your first comment, please see post #28:
"I'm curious how those examples demonstrate that there is no absolute truth. That just shows that there are people who disagree about what the truth is. It could be that when people disagree, some are right and some are wrong, which is consistent with mind-independent, objective, "absolute" truth. "
For your second question, please see post #58:
"As I said in my paper, objective truth *must* exist, because before a person can form their subjective opinions, that person and their mind and capacity to form their subjective opinions must first exist."
And post #60:
Here is an absolute truth:
The statement "there are no absolute truths" is false.
The proof: If there are no absolute truths, that in itself would be an absolute truth.
If it is true, then it is false.
If it is false, then it is false.
Perhaps someone else can answer my question to domer76:
If claims to truth are subjective and equally valid, is the claim that there are no absolute truths equally as valid as the claim that there are absolute truths?
I would also like to know if there are any other thoughts or insights on my paper. It is good to hear perspectives from a broad audience.
How ironic is it that my statement “There is no absolute truth” is your only example of absolute truth.
How ironic is it that my statement “There is no absolute truth” is your only example of absolute truth.
domer76, you did not properly understand my post.
Your position is "There is no absolute truth."
My position is The statement "There is no absolute truth" is false.
--meaning it is absolutely true that there are absolute truths.
That satisfies your challenge. However please see post #60 and #66 to learn about more statements of absolute truth.
#60:
"Synthetic statements require outside evidence to demonstrate whether they are true or false. You can determine the truth value of analytic statements merely by their internal logical composition. The types of anaclitic statements are tautologies and self-refuting statements. I have just provided you with a self-refuting statement. It is impossible for it to be true, and therefore it must be false."
#66:
"However I would point out that it is not the only one. The truth value of all analytic statements can be known as I began to explain. Synthetic statements could also be about absolutely truths, however our ability to determine their truth value would depend on true premises and a valid argument."
I take it you do not want to answer my question for you. I enjoyed our conversation regardless.
Cut the babbling word salad, pal. Provide an example of an absolute truth.
Obviously I would prefer a more syllogistic format. But even more than that...I would love a short paragraph explaining what you are trying to do with this essay. At present, I have no idea...unless you are attempting apologetics of a religious position.
I am a essayist. Normally, as with most essayists, I set out my objective before attempting arguments. YOU, on the other hand, start with "argument"...and, respectfully as possible, with dubious arguments. Your initial arguments are little more than gratuitous assertions about "ethics" among other things.
Let's take that very first sentence...and put it into a grammatically correct, coherent form...of what I think you are trying to say:
I think you are trying to say: Ethical constructs or considerations are not derived from opinions.
Treat that as a conclusion, Kess, and attempt to come up with a P1 and P2 that justify it.
I cannot conceive of you (or anyone) being able to do so...mostly because I think ALL ethical constructs and considerations ARE derived from opinions.
Always have been...always will be.
I would be interested in you attempting it.
But more than that, I would be interested in an opening paragraph that describes your intention for the essay.
Sure. Anyone would find it more clear. Conclusions made manifest by a syllogistic presentation are more clear to everyone looking to be logical.
Glad to offer it. Sorry the notion of a response is still in doubt.
Not sure of what Domer said or meant...but for me...THERE CERTAINLY ARE ABSOLUTE TRUTHS.
I've offered several absolute truths in my earlier posts.
Supersonic jets exist. That does not mean that every means of transportation is a supersonic jet.
Absolute truths exist. That does not mean that everything offered in arguments (or essays) are absolute truths.
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
domer is an idiot, and that is absolutely true.......
Frank, he’s referring to human beliefs and philosophies, not whether you fall when you step off a tall building.
I’d invite you to offer an absolute truth, as well. Our new guest is obviously unable to do so. I’ll gladly admit you are correct if you can offer one, but I doubt you can.
Says the guy who claimed “If the Bible says it, it happened.”
Go ahead, Thumper. Give us an absolute l truth.
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
Says the guy who claimed “If the Bible says it, it happened.”
Go ahead, Thumper. Give us an absolute l truth.
the sun is hot
As I indicated just two posts ago, stupid fuck, the premise is about human ethics, philosophies and beliefs, not whether gravity exists. Or even whether you’re a fucking moron, which is also indisputable.
Idiot.