Althea
Althea told me...........
Irony abounds
NATO’s Scorched Earth in Ukraine | Consortium News
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Althea
Althea told me...........
I'm guessing the OP is another Anatta sock? We haven't seen Putin's waterboy in a while
Althea
Althea told me...........
Geeko Sportivo
Verified User
There is such a thing in this world as Russian Botholes. I have always suspected that Phoney-nix is one of them.
Every post he/she/it posts is about RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA!
It gets old!
I don't think his core goals have changed at all. From what I've seen, he has 2 main goals:
Protect Russia's national security and protect the Donbass people in Ukraine. The second one may have expanded a bit, now including more of eastern Ukraine, but it's the same general idea. Putin outlined these 2 goals in the speech he gave on the day his military intervention began. I quoted a relevant portion where he gets into both of these goals here:
NATO’s Scorched Earth in Ukraine, Post #66 | Consortium News
I forgot about this post, was reminded of it by Althea's response to it. It's similar to a post from Geeko Sportivo, and I think it's deserving of the same type of response, so here goes:
I took the time to make a carefully written post, complete with some lengthy quotes from an article written by a former Australian diplomat and journalist and this is your response? I'm tired of people like you whose first knee jerk reaction to a thread they disagree with is to simply attack the poster. I think that, like Geeko Sportivo, it would probably be best to just thread ban you from my threads in the future, at least any threads discussing Russia. Then at least I can rest easy knowing that such noise won't be in my thread.
Putin's goals were clearly stated when he invaded. The "denazification" and demilitarization of Ukraine.
Practically speaking, that means Putin intended to conquer Ukraine, remove their government, put a Russian client government in Kyiv, and disarm Ukraine.
^ That is how Putin defined Russian victory in February of 2022.
Putin has utterly failed on all those objectives, and now there is no feasible chance he will ever obtain those goals - Ukraine is now too heavily armed to ever be conquered, NATO and the G7 have made long term security guarantees to Ukraine, and Ukraine has been promised eventual NATO membership.
The only question left to be decided is whether Putin will be allowed to keep the thin sliver of land along the shores of the Sea of Azov he currently occupies.
I decided that this subject could use a thread of its own. If you'd like to continue discussing this, please respond here:
Why did the US and allies invade Iraq, 20 years ago? | justplainpolitics.com
After they fall I suspect Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic,et al, will revert back to communism, re-establish the Eastern Bloc and finally restore the old GDR .
NATO aggression against those countries is doomed to failure.
As I pointed out to Tinkerpeach in Post #109, I've seen no evidence that Russia is interested in attacking any of these countries. She clarified in post #110 that she didn't mean that Russia would attack these countries but that Russia would coerce them. While I think that's possible, Russia is hardly the only country to use coercion to attain things it wants. The U.S. does this on a regular basis:
The United States and Coercive Diplomacy: Past, Present, and Future | United States Institute of Peace
Suit yourself. It's basically just another alternative to youtube. Here's a story on it from 2020:
a more freewheeling, independent video platform | techcrunch.com
It is certainly hard to come across videos of this nature on Youtube. The censorship for anything that doesn't follow the mainstream western narrative in regards to the war in Ukraine is pretty strong there.
This may come as news to you, but I was in no way involved in the battle for Mariupol. By the way, did you know that Russia wasn't the first army to take it by force recently? That dubious distinction would go the Ukrainian nationalists, who took it in a bloody takeover back in May 2014. Wikipedia has a rather dry summation of the event:
**
During the unrest in Ukraine in the aftermath of the 2014 Ukrainian revolution, the city of Mariupol, in Donetsk Oblast, saw skirmishes break out between Ukrainian government forces, local police, and separatist militants affiliated with the Donetsk People's Republic. Government forces withdrew from Mariupol on 9 May 2014 after heavy fighting left the city's police headquarters gutted by fire. These forces maintained checkpoints outside the city. Intervention by Metinvest steelworkers on 15 May 2014 led to the removal of barricades from the city centre, and the resumption of patrols by local police. Separatists continued to operate a headquarters in another part of the city until their positions were overrun in a government offensive on 13 June 2014.
**
Source:
Battle of Mariupol (2014) | Wikipedia
rt.com has a much more graphic documentary on it here:
Mariupol: A Homecoming - Looking back at the origins of the battle | rt.com
If you'd looked closely at where I placed the bottom asterisks, you would have realized it was part of the article I had been quoting.
Odysee is not a french site. It's registered in New Hampshire:
https://www.whois.com/whois/odysee.com
As I told Cypress in post #131, it's just an alternative to youtube, which is rather censor heavy when it comes to views not conforming to the western mainstream narrative on Russia. TechCrunch wrote an article about them back in 2020:
It's basically just another alternative to youtube. Here's a story on it from 2020:
a more freewheeling, independent video platform | techcrunch.com
The fact that the video has french subtitles speaks of the uploader of the video, not the site itself.
As I just explained to anonymoose, the odysee video was part of the article I had been quoting, Donbass Insider. Donbass Insider was launched back in 2018. Here's what their about page says:
**
Donbass Insider is a news and analytics website which was launched in September 2018, in order to provide information and insights in several languages mainly about the situation in Donbass, Ukraine and Russia, but also about connected conflicts like Syria and Libya.
This website was created by people working as journalists and translators since years. After working for a news agency, we thought it was necessary to create a new platform, where authors from different agencies, blogs, and information websites can collaborate together to spread information.
The site’s sources will therefore be diverse and will range from official agency sites of all nationalities, to geopolitical analysis sites and personal blogs. The source will be mentioned in each article.
Donbass Insider was also created to raise awareness of the humanitarian missions organized in Donbass, and help them obtain funding to continue to help innocent civilians caught up in the turmoil of war.
This website does not receive any subsidy from a government, an administration, or any NGO. It is funded only by our readers. So, if you love our work, and want us to be able to continue, do not hesitate and support us. You have several crowdfunding and payment platforms which will allow you to help us continue our work.
**
Source:
https://www.donbass-insider.com/about-us/
I had to chuckle at that. I was simply trying to make sure I understood you correctly. I'm not sure the powers that be at NATO wouldn't be capable of kicking Russia out of Ukraine. I just think that they recognize that the cost to seriously try would be so high that they're not yet game to the idea. I believe it's the same reason that they haven't allowed Ukraine to join NATO yet.
To put the foot on the other shoe, I think it would be akin to asking what would it take for the U.S. to accept Russian nukes in Cuba. Perhaps a nuclear war? After that, there wouldn't be much left to kick anyone anywhere. To quote Einstein:
“I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.”
QP!
Verified User
While i agree with everything above there is one Wildcard position that could turn that upside down and that is a second Trump presidency.
In the same way, after Kushner, having been already rejected by every American and international bank and then Qatar and seeing his family fortune about to suffer its first Trump like bankruptcy, got his bff (MBS) to threaten Qatar with invasion and then take over, and then his father-in-law Trump suddenly declared that the US might support Saudi's invasion of Qatar (a US ALLY), and then suddenly Qatar found a slush fund that could give Jarad the $2B he needed to stave off bankruptcy, Trump is one 'Trump Tower Moscow' away from giving Russia full support in the war against Ukraine and pulling the US out of NATO.
QP!
Verified User
^^^Funny that immediately after Kushner got his $2B loan from Qatar, the Saudi's and Trump stopped threatening them. The terrorist threat they claimed was the reason for the invasion seems to have went away with the $2B payment. Maybe they sent all the terrorists out of country carrying the money to Jarad.
And when people ask why Putin never attacked Ukraine while Trump was in power, it was because they believed they would not have to. Trump was working behind the scenes to break them to get them to give up. Step one was for Ukraine to cave in and put back in place Putin's crooked Oligarch over the oil and gas, with Rudy acting as intermediatory and getting a cut for him and Trump and to smear the Bidens. Step two would be making Ukraine know they would get no US support from the USA if Putin declared war so they better concede to his demands.
Unfortunately for Putin, Trump got tripped up when the whistleblower exposed Trumps efforts while he was still inn Step 1.
And when people ask why Putin never attacked Ukraine while Trump was in power, it was because they believed they would not have to. Trump was working behind the scenes to break them to get them to give up. Step one was for Ukraine to cave in and put back in place Putin's crooked Oligarch over the oil and gas, with Rudy acting as intermediatory and getting a cut for him and Trump and to smear the Bidens. Step two would be making Ukraine know they would get no US support from the USA if Putin declared war so they better concede to his demands.
Unfortunately for Putin, Trump got tripped up when the whistleblower exposed Trumps efforts while he was still inn Step 1.
The U.S. has sent Nukes to a lot of countries close to and even bordering Russia. Russia just armed its neighbour with nukes.
Anyway, the bottom line here is that the U.S. could possibly have avoided this war entirely if it'd just agreed to try to agree on terms of a treaty that Russia had brought up back in December 2021.
The conclusion of an article on it shows just how far the U.S. and NATO by extension have gone from their "not one inch east" of Germany spiel back in the day:
**
If Putin has his “red lines,” so too the U.S. and NATO have their “red lines”—very wide “red lines.” Article 4 of Russia’s draft treaty with the U.S. and Article 6 of its draft agreement with NATO, both of which would prohibit Ukraine or any other state (e.g., Georgia) that once was a member of the USSR from joining NATO, clearly cross those “red lines.” Neither the U.S. nor NATO will ever accept such a prohibition and Russia obviously knows that, even if the language of the draft treaty and agreement implies that’s negotiable.
**
Source:
U.S. and NATO to open talks with Russia over Ukraine security guarantees | Yale Macmillan Center
I think the author of the article was optimistic. Don't think there were ever any talks. Then the Ukrainian military started bombing the Donbass region of Ukraine heavily in February, which I believe was the last straw that got Putin to decide the only way to resolve this conflict was with the use of military force.
anonymoose
Classical Liberal
Turkey’s Erdogan says Ukraine deserves NATO membership
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/07/europe/turkey-ukraine-nato-membership-intl/index.html
QP!
Verified User
Do you agree Putin has been an unmitigated disaster on point 1...
Do you agree, for the above alone, Putin has failed so badly in his stated core mission that he should be ousted?