NATO’s Scorched Earth in Ukraine | Consortium News

Putin is the best NATO salesman ever. Last year Finland was 10 percent pro-joining NATO. Thanks to Putin's aggression. they are 80 percent now.
 
Geeko Sportivo said:
There is such a thing in this world as Russian Botholes. I have always suspected that Phoney-nix is one of them.

Every post he/she/it posts is about RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA!

It gets old!
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It's been on my ignore list forever, so I miss all the fun.
 
anonymoose said:
Turkey’s Erdogan says Ukraine deserves NATO membership
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/07/europe/turkey-ukraine-nato-membership-intl/index.html
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He just condescended to allow Sweden in. I believe he chose NATO over Putin as a sign to his nation that even though he managed to win an election where he's still hated, he's tempering his position. And betting on Putin right now is a fool's errand.

We'll see what he extracts from the alliance when it actually comes to voting Ukraine in.
 
Phoenyx said:
The U.S. has sent Nukes to a lot of countries close to and even bordering Russia. Russia just armed its neighbour with nukes.

Anyway, the bottom line here is that the U.S. could possibly have avoided this war entirely if it'd just agreed to try to agree on terms of a treaty that Russia had brought up back in December 2021.

The conclusion of an article on it shows just how far the U.S. and NATO by extension have gone from their "not one inch east" of Germany spiel back in the day:

**
If Putin has his “red lines,” so too the U.S. and NATO have their “red lines”—very wide “red lines.” Article 4 of Russia’s draft treaty with the U.S. and Article 6 of its draft agreement with NATO, both of which would prohibit Ukraine or any other state (e.g., Georgia) that once was a member of the USSR from joining NATO, clearly cross those “red lines.” Neither the U.S. nor NATO will ever accept such a prohibition and Russia obviously knows that, even if the language of the draft treaty and agreement implies that’s negotiable.
**

Source:
U.S. and NATO to open talks with Russia over Ukraine security guarantees | Yale Macmillan Center

I think the author of the article was optimistic. Don't think there were ever any talks. Then the Ukrainian military started bombing the Donbass region of Ukraine heavily in February, which I believe was the last straw that got Putin to decide the only way to resolve this conflict was with the use of military force.
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Why does it matter if nukes are close? We can shoot them from subs. We have intercontinental missiles with nuke warheads. We have a thousand missiles aimed at Russian cities every second of every day. Putin has as many aimed at us. That is no red one. Putin was looking for an excuse to attack Ukraine. They have power, food, and oil. Putin wanted it.
 
Phoenyx said:
I had to chuckle at that. I was simply trying to make sure I understood you correctly. I'm not sure the powers that be at NATO wouldn't be capable of kicking Russia out of Ukraine. I just think that they recognize that the cost to seriously try would be so high that they're not yet game to the idea.
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. Yes, you do understand . You just explained why NATO is no threat to Russia.
I believe it's the same reason that they haven't allowed Ukraine to join NATO yet.
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It’s always been their policy to not accept a nation currently at war. Their purpose is to prevent war, not start one. But you knew that.
 
anonymoose said:
. Yes, you do understand . You just explained why NATO is no threat to Russia. It’s always been their policy to not accept a nation currently at war. Their purpose is to prevent war, not start one. But you knew that.
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NATO claims that they are purely a defensive organization.....but as with all the West now this is a bold faced lie.

The West is going down, you best strap in, this get punished.
 
Phoenyx said:
An article I found interesting published a few days ago on Consortium News by Tony Kevin, thought others here might be interested in reading it and perhaps offering a constructive comment or 2. Quoting from it:

**
July 5, 2023

The forthcoming NATO Summit in Vilnius on July 11-12 seems already infected by a strange policy fatalism, writes Tony Kevin.

By Tony Kevin

Hope of a policy breakthrough in Vilnius, Lithuania towards peace in Ukraine, spearheaded by the war-weary East Europeans, seems to have drained away.

There is general acceptance in NATO that the Ukrainian summer offensives in Zaporizhie and again now in Bakhmut have failed to dent Russian defences, with horrific mortality in Ukrainian manpower and enormous destruction of Western-supplied equipment.

The West seems content to let Zelensky go on wasting Ukraine’s increasingly scarce military-age men in a process described by writer Raúl Ilargi Meijer as NATO’s assisted suicide of the Ukrainian nation.

The NATO unspoken strategy seems to be: we know Russia is inevitably winning in Ukraine, but we will make sure we and our Kiev proxies destroy as much as possible of Ukraine’s manpower and national wealth before Russia takes control of the country.

The Kakhovka dam is gone, and what is left of Zaporizhie Nuclear Power Plant seems increasingly at risk of West-assisted Ukrainian sabotage. These two huge assets were the pivots of Ukraine’s industrial and agricultural potential and wealth.

When Russia wins political control over the ruined land of Ukraine, and after it repudiates Western carpetbagging claims to asset ownership there, it will face a huge rebuilding job, comparable to the situation the Soviet Union faced in Ukraine after the 1944-45 vengeful scorched-earth actions by the retreating Nazi divisions.

Meanwhile, Germany under its supine Scholz leadership is de-industrialising, following the loss of cheap Russian gas after the U.S.-conducted sabotage of the Baltic pipelines. German industrialists are taking their capital, management skills and intellectual property elsewhere. France is riven by serious rioting. The EU is distracted and aimless. Western Europe is shrinking in global influence.

In the U.S., only the military-industrial-information complex is doing well. Infrastructure continues to decay. The middle class is eroding and confused. The Democrats are the party of liberal imperialism and the Republicans are still riven between warmongers and America-first nationalist Trumpians. Who knows who will be the next U.S. president, and if he or she can arrest America’s relative decline.

[snip]

There is enough evidence now to satisfy the Global Majority that U.S. regime change and controlling operations in Ukraine since 2013 have been above all cynically aimed at weakening and destabilising Russia. Remembering their own viciously exploited colonial history, the Global Majority are glad these Western efforts are failing.

The Vilnius NATO meeting will produce no new miracles of salvation for the doomed Kiev regime. There will be a lot of tired rhetoric about continuing to defend democratic Ukraine.

Nobody – speakers or listeners – will believe it.
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Full article:
NATO’s Scorched Earth in Ukraine | Consortium News
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My problem is where do we go after all of the Ukrainians are dead? The point of this is to destroy Russia. The Ukraine cannot do that. When the Ukrainians can no longer fight what do we do then? Strategic weapons?
 
Lightbringer said:
My problem is where do we go after all of the Ukrainians are dead? The point of this is to destroy Russia. The Ukraine cannot do that. When the Ukrainians can no longer fight what do we do then? Strategic weapons?
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They will negotiate before that happens.

That is Putin's goal.
 
Lightbringer said:
I would have agreed with this last year, I no longer do. Why would Putin negotiate with us? We have done nothing but lie.
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Not with us but with Ukraine.

They won't have a choice.

Although Biden's recent push for support will keep them going longer it will eventually lead to the same conclusion, just with more lives lost on both sides.

In my opinion Ukraine should just surrender the Russian territories in the east, sign another peace treaty and end the fighting, then they can go back to normal.

It appears that is what Putin wants. He isn't pushing for the whole nation.
 
Tinkerpeach said:
Not with us but with Ukraine.

They won't have a choice.

Although Biden's recent push for support will keep them going longer it will eventually lead to the same conclusion, just with more lives lost on both sides.

In my opinion Ukraine should just surrender the Russian territories in the east, sign another peace treaty and end the fighting, then they can go back to normal.

It appears that is what Putin wants. He isn't pushing for the whole nation.
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I disagree with this. We are the Ukraine, we are calling the shots and Russia knows it.
 
Biden is weak and Putin knows this.

He is not afraid of him.

Hell Biden said right away that we wouldn't engage the Russians, what leader would ever say some shit like that.
 
Tinkerpeach said:
Biden is weak and Putin knows this.

He is not afraid of him.

Hell Biden said right away that we wouldn't engage the Russians, what leader would ever say some shit like that.
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It is all of the West that is weak (dying actually)....China and their friends are fully aware which is why they are going for the jugular now.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
It is all of the West that is weak (dying actually)....China and their friends are fully aware which is why they are going for the jugular now.
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It reminds you of the West when Hitler began his march doesn't it?

They didn't do anything but provide some monetary support and fluffy words.

How many people died because of that?
 
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