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The Almighty
LMAO... so now we are back to the monkey comparisons? Well at least it wasn't a drunken monkey this time.
Nothing but Lies and distortions from Obama
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LMAO... so now we are back to the monkey comparisons? Well at least it wasn't a drunken monkey this time.
"#1 wasn't a lie... Saint Obama simply threw his "unnamed staffer" under the bus and the good little lemming disciples fell to their knees and worshiped the One. For he could not possibly have known how his positions were being presented on a questionaire that he clearly had taken notes on.... no... he thought it was scrap paper... hadn't read it at all. Had no idea. You really are a hack to believe that bullshit.
- I used to work for a Congressman (Republican, no less). We had to fill out paperwork like that all the time. You'd be surprised at how much politicians do NOT do, especially when it comes to paperwork; they rarely, if ever do that. Since you never worked in Congress, I wouldn't expect you to know that, but on this one, I actually have no doubt that he isn't lying.
#2 is not complex. The bill was presented in the Illinois state legislature and he voted against it. Hack.
- like I said, check factcheck. There are some states rights issues involved, and some wording changes between the bills. Like I said, I admit the defense is "shaky ground," but it's not a lie.
#3 complete hypocricy ..... completely ignored by his good lil disciple.
- again, not a lie, or distortion. If you want to start a thread about hypocrisy, have at it.
#4 is indeed a lie. When your position is proven wrong and you continue to state that it is not wrong.... you are LYING. But again, you shall ignore it, because the One has told you to do so. Bow down good little lemming... now rise up and take your place at his six, bend down and insert head up his ass, because your hackery is complete."
- You must think Bush & McCain are the biggest liars of all time. Obama being wrong is YOUR OPINION. If you watched O'Reilly's interview, you know exactly how Obama feels on this issue. It is not a LIE, by any stretch of anything. It may surprise you to hear this, but many on the left do not automatically accept that the surge did everything that it set out to accomplish, at least not yet, and one thing we know for certain: we have absolutely no idea what the situation would be like if the country had done exactly what Obama advocated at the time the surge began. Seriously, you have NO idea. Obama has always said that withdrawal or the threat of it would force the Iraqi's hand, and bring about political change & reconciliation much quicker. For all we know, his way might have worked better, in which case...how was he wrong?
I know your response to that already..."LMAO...c'mon, Lorax, McSurge, McSurge, McSurge,", but again, that doesn't cut it in real debate.
This thread is truly some weak-ass shit, SF, but I invite you to keep bumping it.
- I used to work for a Congressman (Republican, no less). We had to fill out paperwork like that all the time. You'd be surprised at how much politicians do NOT do, especially when it comes to paperwork; they rarely, if ever do that. Since you never worked in Congress, I wouldn't expect you to know that, but on this one, I actually have no doubt that he isn't lying.
#2 is not complex. The bill was presented in the Illinois state legislature and he voted against it. Hack.
- like I said, check factcheck. There are some states rights issues involved, and some wording changes between the bills. Like I said, I admit the defense is "shaky ground," but it's not a lie.
#3 complete hypocricy ..... completely ignored by his good lil disciple.
- again, not a lie, or distortion. If you want to start a thread about hypocrisy, have at it.
#4 is indeed a lie. When your position is proven wrong and you continue to state that it is not wrong.... you are LYING. But again, you shall ignore it, because the One has told you to do so. Bow down good little lemming... now rise up and take your place at his six, bend down and insert head up his ass, because your hackery is complete."
- You must think Bush & McCain are the biggest liars of all time. Obama being wrong is YOUR OPINION. If you watched O'Reilly's interview, you know exactly how Obama feels on this issue. It is not a LIE, by any stretch of anything. It may surprise you to hear this, but many on the left do not automatically accept that the surge did everything that it set out to accomplish, at least not yet, and one thing we know for certain: we have absolutely no idea what the situation would be like if the country had done exactly what Obama advocated at the time the surge began. Seriously, you have NO idea. Obama has always said that withdrawal or the threat of it would force the Iraqi's hand, and bring about political change & reconciliation much quicker. For all we know, his way might have worked better, in which case...how was he wrong?
I know your response to that already..."LMAO...c'mon, Lorax, McSurge, McSurge, McSurge,", but again, that doesn't cut it in real debate.
This thread is truly some weak-ass shit, SF, but I invite you to keep bumping it.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
1) I have no doubt that shit happens in DC without the politicians knowledge... but to pretend that he was taking notes on this and still had no idea what was on it is pretty friggin sad.
2) Spin away good lemming... spin away....
3) Good to see you admit it was hypocricy.... I explained myself twice already on this... if you want we can have Damo add the word to the thread title. Then maybe you can get those tighty whiteys out of a bunch.
4) LMAO... now we can see how desperate you are on this one.... trying to hold Obama in comparison to Bush to somehow justify his lie. That is classic. Note... when Obama states that the surge would fail, then states that the surge succeeded.... how the fuck is he not lying when he says his original position was not wrong? Please, enlighten us oh holy disciple.
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The Almighty
As for this part...
"we have absolutely no idea what the situation would be like if the country had done exactly what Obama advocated at the time the surge began. Seriously, you have NO idea. Obama has always said that withdrawal or the threat of it would force the Iraqi's hand, and bring about political change & reconciliation much quicker. For all we know, his way might have worked better, in which case...how was he wrong?"
You are correct. We have no idea what would have occured had we pulled out all of our troops at the height of violence in Iraq. It is rather humorous for you to point out that we can't know what "might have happened" had another course been taken. Especially since you are so 'positive' Gore and Kerry would have been better than Bush.
"we have absolutely no idea what the situation would be like if the country had done exactly what Obama advocated at the time the surge began. Seriously, you have NO idea. Obama has always said that withdrawal or the threat of it would force the Iraqi's hand, and bring about political change & reconciliation much quicker. For all we know, his way might have worked better, in which case...how was he wrong?"
You are correct. We have no idea what would have occured had we pulled out all of our troops at the height of violence in Iraq. It is rather humorous for you to point out that we can't know what "might have happened" had another course been taken. Especially since you are so 'positive' Gore and Kerry would have been better than Bush.
Well, to be fair, he was a New Yorker, and had a great voter rating from the liberal caucus. The GOP hated him.
Well, you're the one asserting the lie; again, I'm glad to hear you admit that you were off on that.
As for the rest, "good little lemming" and "hack" don't really cut it as intelligent debate.
What a waste of space this thread is; I can't wait to see how you embarass yourself tomorrow.
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The Almighty
LMAO... you really are good at talking yourself in circles. Obama lied about his position that that surge would fail. It has not failed. He even admits it was a success. For him to state that his position that it would fail is not wrong is a friggin LIE.
That does not mean that his strategy of pulling the troops out was wrong. It means that his position that the surge would fail is wrong.
As for the "hack" comments... shall we explore various threads to hear how many times you have called someone a hack? Thought not.
Ok, that makes it much better. Sort of like a Lincoln Chafee. I liked him.
It’s really too bad that McCain never had to admit the real truth of the matter – the war itself was wrong, and he was wrong to advocate for it. I saw this film last night, Body of War. It intersperses the story of one soldier who came home paralyzed, with the politicians, bush and the rest of the whores, selling the lies, and Bush laughing about “where did I put those wmds” while the media illuminati laughed and clapped like painted monkeys, at that press dinner, and all of the Senators and some congress people giving their speeches, all of which use the same exact words you just saw bush saying, and you hear their “Aye” votes. And in between all of that, they also intersperse Robert Byrd’s speech on the Senate floor, which really, was a moment in history that will live on. I thought of all of the times I mentioned his name and some R has jumped on me “HE WAS IN THE KKK”, and I thought you know, if you live long enough, and if your heart truly turns, you can gain redemption in this life, and Byrd is proof of that, and when he dies, what will be shown over and over, is that very powerful, historic, and brave speech and plea to the American people, and to his fellow Senators.
But they didn’t listen, and only 23 Senators voted against it, and all of the death, and all of the terrible suffering is on their heads, and on ours. And so when I hear about “the success of the surge” it makes me want to puke. Just be thankful I didn’t lose someone I loved SF. I’d kill.
Really well said, and I agree 100%. This is something that drives me absolutely crazy, but is part of the absurdity inherent in the current state of our politics.
You and I get this - we get the consequences, and the triviality of the comparison between the war & the surge, and the reasons for it. Superfreak is a very tiny person, and can't see above the trees on this; he hears McSurge talking about his great judgment on the surge, and it's like manna from heaven, because he & so many others have been living with the shame and unfathomable human cost of the initial decision for years now.
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The Almighty
No, I really don't think you "get it". I know it is hard for you to comprehend, but after the war began, after Bush screwed it up so badly, we had to decide on a course of action. I know it is easy to simply stand back and say... we shouldn't have gone in the first place so no decision made after that matters. To a lemming like you I am sure it doesn't.
But in the real world, a decision had to be made. Should we withdraw as Obama proposed or should we add troops as McCain suggested? As you stated, we will never know whether or not Obamas would have worked or not. But we do know that McCains plan DID work. As Obama has finally admitted.
But I know... your calling me a "very tiny person" is your way of having an "intelligent debate".
One thing we do know, the doom predicted from the surge never occurred.
So, when Obama says there was success from the surge you just think he is wrong?
This is so weird, it's like the people who think there are still WMD in Iraq. It's very equivalent in my mind.
Once the nation was there, we had basically three choices. Continue as we were, surge and try to make a difference and leave them in better shape than they currently were after our invasion, or abandon the occupation as it was at that point, all of them have consequences.
Personally I believe the attempt to leave them a bit better off than what we created was the more moral decision. I agree, definitively, that we never should have gone in, but the reality of it was we had.
evince
Truthmatters
The success is that there are fewer dead.
Bagdad is filled with troops.
The rest of the country is pretty much running itself without us there huh?
Maybe the example is that we should have gotten the fuck out and let them run it themselfs?
If the goal is to not have our troops killed and that represents success then a really fucking sure way of seeing that happen is to get the fuck out huh?
Bagdad is filled with troops.
The rest of the country is pretty much running itself without us there huh?
Maybe the example is that we should have gotten the fuck out and let them run it themselfs?
If the goal is to not have our troops killed and that represents success then a really fucking sure way of seeing that happen is to get the fuck out huh?
uscitizen
Villified User
yet, only a fool will think we will have calm in Iraq for any real length of time.
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
He couldn't approve 1 anyway, 2 was a faux-outrage mess that banned a perfectly legitimate abortion procedure, 3 is just being trivial, and as for 4 at least he won't keep us there one-hundred years.
Exactly. Also Desh hits a key point when she points out something that has been mostly forgotten – the surge was billed as temporary, that’s why they got away with calling it a surge. It was supposed to last for a few months. Many of us, knew it was an escalation and wanted to call it that. Some of us real whack jobs, made signs stating that and stood out on street corners waiving them.
We were right. But no one has been forced to tell us so. Not that I care. The bottom line is exactly as I wrote above. The war was a lie. That makes it murder. There is no right that can come from that. Since the Iraq resolution was pushed through by Rove/Bush/Cheney three weeks before the midterm elections, it was political, and they should be tried, and executed, blindfolded, shot at dawn, for this. All three of them, and anyone else involved, which is why you need a trial. Period.