NY Times calls for end to Electoral College

blackascoal said:
Help me understand how the elimination of the EC disenfranchises people in rural states.

They get the same one vote that everybody else does, and the totality of those votes elects a president.
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it doesn't disenfranchise voters -it diminishes the powers of the Republic to one of a pure democracy.

There is a reason for a bicameral Legislature; that same reasoning applies to the EC -a representative republic
determines the course of the country
 
Thing1 said:
People overplay how that would have affected this election, imo. Trump still loses the popular vote handily.
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It's not overplayed. In the EC people are asking why Hillary didn't campaign in Michigan and Wisconsin more right before the election. They wouldn't ask that if it were a popular vote.
 
This whine has got to stop. The EC was JUSTICE FINE with Jimmy Carter, Harry S. Truman, FDR, Lyndon B. Johnson, Bill Clinton, and BHO.

Why? Because they won.

Why this now? It ain't rocket Science!
 
cawacko said:
Scalia said in the Heller case the second amendment right is not unlimited. There are cases that still come before the SC regarding guns.
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It's not unlimited. Would you argue that it is? I mean, we are talking Scalia here.

The hysteria is overblown. The public supports common sense measures like waiting periods, background checks, et al., and for good reason. Very few rights are unlimited; I actually can't think of any.
 
anatta said:
it doesn't disenfranchise voters -it diminishes the powers of the Republic to one of a pure democracy.

There is a reason for a bicameral Legislature; that same reasoning applies to the EC -a representative republic
determines the course of the country
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its about picking representatives idiot


that means its NOT PURE DEMOCRACY fucking liar
 
anatta said:
it doesn't disenfranchise voters -it diminishes the powers of the Republic to one of a pure democracy.

There is a reason for a bicameral Legislature; that same reasoning applies to the EC -a representative republic
determines the course of the country
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That's nonsense. Cows don't vote.

THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE is the very basis and reason to vote.
 
Midas Whale67 said:
This whine has got to stop. The EC was JUSTICE FINE with Jimmy Carter, Harry S. Truman, FDR, Lyndon B. Johnson, Bill Clinton, and BHO.

Why? Because they won.

Why this now? It ain't rocket Science!
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because the majority of voters won


you fucks keep gaming the system to win with the minority vote
 
anatta said:
Reading the NYTimes or WaPo many times I feel like I'm reading some alt-universe where "all the news that's fit to print" ( motto)
morphs into "all the news that fits our mindset - we print"

Look at this: how can the electoral college NOT "reflect geographic diversity?" -would Wyoming or the small states ever be factored into the "will of the people" if it had the same voting power as a borough of NY city? ( no)

The college reflects the design of Congress -which reflects the will of the REPUBLIC -where states and the population are both represented. yes NY Times that's exactly WHY
it's no accident - The Senate does the same thing. The House reflects population -both factors are reflected in the Electoral vote.

Attempts to bypass the College thru a winner take all by the popular vote disenfranchises the voters of that state.

The founders had many reasons not to make every national decision by a pure democracy-
again the Legislative Branch reflects that dichotomy
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The level to which progressives will sink is a whole new low. Mob rule is in their blood- just look at the mindset and world view of rioters. Not protesters, but those bent on rioting and looting.
 
Thing1 said:
They can't take the right away.
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Here's the thing from my perspective. It is abundantly clear to me that there are many on the left who would take a European approach to gun ownership, severely restricting availability and ease of obtainment. Leaving it so that the wealthier are the ones who own them. That leaves me out when I was a kid. I'd never been able to learn do the things that I now enjoy. It would leave many of my kids out now as most of them are poor. You should see the deer season board in my classroom. It's been a good year. There are no fewer than two new guns under our tree right now waiting to be opened Christmas Eve...that's our traditional day for present opening. Many families around here have the same sort of gifts. You should see the shooting range during good weather. It's more crowded than the municipal golf course by far. Once again, I understand that this is a rural thing but we kind of like our lives this way and it is [most of] our view that there are those who would make it next to impossible for us.

Now, I know there are democratic candidates out there who know and understand this and would do nothing to hamper it but we never seem to get to see any of them in national elections.
 
Midas Whale67 said:
This whine has got to stop. The EC was JUSTICE FINE with Jimmy Carter, Harry S. Truman, FDR, Lyndon B. Johnson, Bill Clinton, and BHO.

Why? Because they won.

Why this now? It ain't rocket Science!
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The whining, opposition, obstructionism, and down right hate will not stop. It's just getting started.

SEE: republicans in the Obama years to figure out why it won't stop.
 
leaningright said:
Those of us who live in rural states would like not to be ruled by those who have no clue about our life as well. What is the answer? I ask this as a serious question. Is there no place for compromise?
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the EC is the compromise that insures the small states are not over-run by the popular will of the large states
 
blackascoal said:
The whining, opposition, obstructionism, and down right hate will not stop. It's just getting started.

SEE: republicans in the Obama years to figure out why it won't stop.
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That is fine. But if the goal is to overturn the EC you're going to need the support of small states and saying I'm a Democrat and supported Hillary and therefore the EC should be changed probably isn't going to win people over.
 
J Craft said:
The level to which progressives will sink is a whole new low. Mob rule is in their blood- just look at the mindset and world view of rioters. Not protesters, but those bent on rioting and looting.
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I don't know about "mob rule".
Sticking to the subject, and attempting not to be partisan ( recall there is nothing about Partys in the Constitution)-
the founders clearly set up a representative republic ( and all that entails); which is the same reason for the EC
 
leaningright said:
Here's the thing from my perspective. It is abundantly clear to me that there are many on the left who would take a European approach to gun ownership, severely restricting availability and ease of obtainment. Leaving it so that the wealthier are the ones who own them. That leaves me out when I was a kid. I'd never been able to learn do the things that I now enjoy. It would leave many of my kids out now as most of them are poor. You should see the deer season board in my classroom. It's been a good year. There are no fewer than two new guns under our tree right now waiting to be opened Christmas Eve...that's our traditional day for present opening. Many families around here have the same sort of gifts. You should see the shooting range during good weather. It's more crowded than the municipal golf course by far. Once again, I understand that this is a rural thing but we kind of like our lives this way and it is [most of] our view that there are those who would make it next to impossible for us.

Now, I know there are democratic candidates out there who know and understand this and would do nothing to hamper it but we never seem to get to see any of them in national elections.
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Christmas Eve present-opening? I don't know about that one.

I get it, but I really have never seen the kid of infringement or even suggested infringement that would limit the kind of gun ownership you're describing (except from far-lefties, who never really have control of anything, anyway). But I'm not as attuned to that stuff as you are.

Are there any examples of SC decisions that were close, that would have had major ramifications for lawful gun ownership?
 
blackascoal said:
That's stupid.
Voting represents the will of the people in every other instance except the Electoral College.
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votes do a direct vote for their representatives,but the POWER of the representatives in Congress is determined by the population( house) and the states identity ( Senate.
Same thing for the voters electing the College. It's not bicameral,but the power of the individual electors is expressed by the same factors.
 
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