It also directly works to curtail costs rather than just increase coverage and doing nothing about cost.
Obama's healthcare plan: why we should support it
- Thread starter Cancel 2018. 3
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christiefan915
Catalyst
My opinion is the same as that of all the plan supporters who've been discussing this specifically and generally for weeks now, so I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for.
I believe everybody should have health care, that costs would go down because the risk pool would vastly expand, and that individual taxes would be less than the cost of paying for coverage either privately or through employee deductions.
I don't believe any kind of gov't. health plan will fix all that's wrong with the system and I sure as shooting know that private insurance hasn't fixed all the problems in the system, either.
I believe there are some areas in which U.S. statistics fall behind other countries, infant mortality as an example, and that health care available to all could change this for the better.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html
I believe that if everyone had access to health care problems would be caught at earlier stages and not become a drain on the system when they grew more serious.
I believe that the plan is being selectively interpreted, shall we say, by its detractors to invoke fear in those who have a reflexive dislike of it and/or Obama.
Finally, I believe you aren't really looking to be sold on Obama's plan because if you were, you'd be investigating it through other sources rather than asking for opinions on a message board.
And the dems will be on board!!!
The cost of individually paid policies will be reduced by for-profit insurers?
Will insurance be provided to those who cannot afford it?
It will be legal for US consumers to buy less expensive presriptions overseas?
US drug companies will charge US pharmacies the same as elsewhere?
Bankruptcy will no longer be the last option for those faced with catastrophic
medical bills?
There will be nobody rejected as a result of pre existing conditions?
Insurers will insure costs for branded drugs equally as with generics if there is no choice?
Patients before profits?
Patients before profits?
Who gets the tax breaks and what about those who do not earn enough to get a tax break?
Patients before profits?
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Yes, because there would be one regulation rather than 50. The easiest way to reduce costs is to allow people to pick and choose coverage, the government should require catastrophic coverage for conditions that will bankrupt you.
There is no reason that my family needs coverage for pregnancy for instance, we are done with that, any future kids will be adopted. There is no reason that a kid working at the local gas station needs that coverage either, but they are forced to pay for it because of needless regulation.
There are many ways to save cash without reducing coverage that is actually needed, and some may require less coverage than you do, but why should they be forced into that same pool?
People need to be able to compare and purchase health insurance outside of their jobs (like car insurance).
However the first thing that needs to be done is to actually look into the cost side of things, instead of ignoring it and jumping right into coverage. The costs have gone up much quicker than any indicators would show, there is very likely some "pentagon hammer" types of savings to be discovered before we start implementing public funds to pay for everything.
Superfreak had a rather interesting post on what should be done, one that I almost agreed with 100%, I'll see if I can find it so I can elucidate better. At this time I am a bit tired and it is likely time for some sleep though.
You had better stop here. Making this much sense isn't acceptable to the neo liberal mind.
But the post I replied to, along with TuTu's, seems to imply that an alternative, superior, plan has already been formulated and presented to cover those and other issues. It is my scepticism that prompted my questions.
Families facing ruin or experiencing catastrophic health emergencies, I don't think, have much time for patience. Seniors and parents foregoing medicine or treatment for monetary reasons don't have the luxury of time.
This thing has been on us for years, when is the right time for change? Harry and Louise were here 15 years ago, health costs have doubled in the last 9 years. We were lied to then and it continues today while the national treasure is going down the drain for 2nd rate healthcare. 15 years from today, if it continues, it will be too late to fix because we will be a 3rd World country unable to fix anything, even other countries.
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Anecdotes about people facing coverage issues at this moment in time notwithstanding the US cannot afford not to slow down, crisis legislation is invariably terrible boondoggle-ridden garbage that we regret.
I don't think there is a plan out there that can guarantee no mistakes, certainly not one from insurance and pharmaceutical companies, today's "boondoggle" recipients. When do we take the first step? We waited 15 years and the "crisis" is worse, how much longer can we wait and remain a viable nation?
The fact that medical costs are the number one reason for bankruptcy indicates there are hundreds of thousands of "anecdotes" in a single year. I, for one, think it's a disgrace. Talk to ya' tomorrow.
TuTu Monroe
A Realist
Exactly. Either Obama doesn't know what he is doing or doesn't care.
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
I fear you are right.....if we adopt a European style health care plan our infant mortality rates will mirror those of Europe.....of course, we already determined in an earlier debate that Europe's numbers differ from ours only because they don't make any effort to save low birth weight infants and simply count them as miscarriages....that's certainly what you can expect as the government starts cutting costs.....perhaps this would be a good point to recall that while an Illinois senator Obama pushed presented for vote a law permitting abortion clinics to kill infants accidentally born alive during an abortion procedure.....
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DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
As in ObamaCare. *shrug*
apple0154
MEOW
If I'm reading this correctly I don't understand your logic. If the government is mandating insurance companies to cover people with existing conditions that means the government makes the decision and then dictates the terms to the insurance companies. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the government in control thereby skipping the "middle man"?
As for the costs of a universal plan let's look at the land size and population of a few countries.
Canada:........Land: 9976140 sq. km..................pop: 31,902,268
US................Land: 9629091 sq.km...................pop: 280,562,489
Australia:.......Land: 7686850 sq.km....................pop: 20,601,000
France:..........Land: 547030 sq.km....................pop: 59,765,983
Sweden:........Land: 449964 sq.km....................pop: 8,876,744
Germany:......Land: 357021 sq.km...................pop: 83,251,851
Norway:........Land: 324220 sq.km...................pop 4,525,116
(http://www.mongabay.com/igapo/world_...cs_by_area.htm) (2002)
Take Germany and Norway as examples. Roughly the same land mass but Germany has 18 times the population of Norway, yet, both countries have a universal medical plan.
Or compare Sweden and France. While France has approximately 20% more land it has 7 times as many people, yet, both countries have a medical plan.
Furthermore, those countries have pension plans and other social plans and their life expectancy rate is as high or higher than the US.
The cost factor is simply a scare tactic. Countries, large and small, sparsely or densely populated, can afford a universal plan. Furthermore, when was the last time you heard of a country dismantling their universal plan and returning to private medical care? To my knowledge it has never happened. Not once.
As I stated before this is not a journey into the unknown. Other countries, rich and poor, have done it. If left in the hands of private interests there will always be someone trying to squeeze a dollar out of ill people.
As for profit the entire country profits from healthier citizens. Healthy people are happier and more productive. And an extra benefit, although seldom mentioned, is healthy women look a lot better than ill ones.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
Why don't you liberals simply move to one of these utopias and leave us freedom loving Americans alone?If I'm reading this correctly I don't understand your logic. If the government is mandating insurance companies to cover people with existing conditions that means the government makes the decision and then dictates the terms to the insurance companies. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the government in control thereby skipping the "middle man"?
As for the costs of a universal plan let's look at the land size and population of a few countries.
Canada:........Land: 9976140 sq. km..................pop: 31,902,268
US................Land: 9629091 sq.km...................pop: 280,562,489
Australia:.......Land: 7686850 sq.km....................pop: 20,601,000
France:..........Land: 547030 sq.km....................pop: 59,765,983
Sweden:........Land: 449964 sq.km....................pop: 8,876,744
Germany:......Land: 357021 sq.km...................pop: 83,251,851
Norway:........Land: 324220 sq.km...................pop 4,525,116
(http://www.mongabay.com/igapo/world_...cs_by_area.htm) (2002)
Take Germany and Norway as examples. Roughly the same land mass but Germany has 18 times the population of Norway, yet, both countries have a universal medical plan.
Or compare Sweden and France. While France has approximately 20% more land it has 7 times as many people, yet, both countries have a medical plan.
Furthermore, those countries have pension plans and other social plans and their life expectancy rate is as high or higher than the US.
The cost factor is simply a scare tactic. Countries, large and small, sparsely or densely populated, can afford a universal plan. Furthermore, when was the last time you heard of a country dismantling their universal plan and returning to private medical care? To my knowledge it has never happened. Not once.
As I stated before this is not a journey into the unknown. Other countries, rich and poor, have done it. If left in the hands of private interests there will always be someone trying to squeeze a dollar out of ill people.
As for profit the entire country profits from healthier citizens. Healthy people are happier and more productive. And an extra benefit, although seldom mentioned, is healthy women look a lot better than ill ones.
apple0154
MEOW
What criteria or definition can be applied to "freedom" that surpasses the right to guaranteed health care? Can one truly be free when they are ill?
No, but taking a bit of time to allow constituents to read and talk about the legislation can bring forward many foreseen issues. Attempting to get these things passed without consideration is one of the many things I dislike about DC. Bills such as this one that will effect the rest of our lives deserve heavy consideration, not a rush to pass. Doing it right the first time, making something uniquely American, would be a good thing. Slopping together crap and trying to get people to pass it without consideration is beyond foolish.
And it is the COST that is where the first consideration should come. As I said. Ignoring that will only ensure bankruptcy of any program we create.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
With freedom comes responsibility; in this case, the responsibility to buy your own health care. You liberals have it backwards thinking that freedom means freedom from responsibility. *shrug*
Normally I would agree with you, but the memory of what took place 15 years ago and what has NOT taken place since, gives me little confidence that a "go slow" attitude means anything more than waiting another 15 years for another fight. I honestly believe this country cannot afford to wait another 15 years which, I have no doubt, is the underlying plan by those powers in lobbyist's pockets.
I find it difficult to understand how people experiencing our current health system can take the insurance/pharma industry position. Somehow, I don't get the feeling that the well-being of the people of the USA is foremost in their hearts.
cancel2 2022
Canceled
Where do you get your propaganda from, you are seriously telling me that premature babies are left to die in Europe? I expect that you are another armchair tourist who has never left US shores!!
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cancel2 2022
Canceled
Waiting for much longer will just allow Mordor to regroup and fight back.