Obama's healthcare plan: why we should support it

PostmodernProphet said:
I fear you are right.....if we adopt a European style health care plan our infant mortality rates will mirror those of Europe.....of course, we already determined in an earlier debate that Europe's numbers differ from ours only because they don't make any effort to save low birth weight infants and simply count them as miscarriages....that's certainly what you can expect as the government starts cutting costs.....perhaps this would be a good point to recall that while an Illinois senator Obama pushed presented for vote a law permitting abortion clinics to kill infants accidentally born alive during an abortion procedure.....
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Yeah, Obama and Infanticide. It makes me shudder everytime I think about it.
 
tom prendergast said:
Where do you get your propaganda from, you are seriously telling me that premature babies are left to die in Europe? I expect that you are another armchair tourist who has never left US shores!!
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???...yes, Tom, I am seriously telling you that.....if a child does not meet minimum standards of length and body weight no extraordinary efforts are made to sustain life and it is listed as stillborn.....didn't we just have a thread on this?......

if you combine the US and European figures for stillbirth/miscarriages and infant mortality and compare the totals you will find that the US numbers are actually better than Europe's........
 
Southern Man said:
With freedom comes responsibility; in this case, the responsibility to buy your own health care. You liberals have it backwards thinking that freedom means freedom from responsibility. *shrug*
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Some people can't afford coverage. It's not a matter of being responsible. It's a matter of having enough money to eat and clothe ones family or a choice between eating or buying medication.
 
apple0154 said:
Some people can't afford coverage. It's not a matter of being responsible. It's a matter of having enough money to eat and clothe ones family or a choice between eating or buying medication.
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and yet, instead of finding a way to help those people buy food or medication, we prefer to spend a trillion dollars re-doing EVERYBODY's health care......

it's just like the Medicare drug plan.....you start out saying, there are some seniors who need help with the cost of drugs.....and instead, we're subsidizing prescriptions for people making $120k a year from their dividends and savings......why should I pay more taxes to help somebody who's savings accounts earn more than I do?......
 
apple0154 said:
Some people can't afford coverage. It's not a matter of being responsible. It's a matter of having enough money to eat and clothe ones family or a choice between eating or buying medication.
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That's bull. A high deductible policy is still cheap, and if they are that poor they can qualify for medicade.
 
TuTu Monroe said:
Check this out. This was voted down by the Democrats, which tells us how out of touch they are with the average American.

click here
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Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives that Members who vote in favor of the establishment of a public, Federal Government run health insurance option are urged to forgo their right to participate in the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP) and agree to enroll under that public option.
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Of course they opt out of the plan themselves. They're the ruling class. *shrug*
 
PostmodernProphet said:
and yet, instead of finding a way to help those people buy food or medication, we prefer to spend a trillion dollars re-doing EVERYBODY's health care......

it's just like the Medicare drug plan.....you start out saying, there are some seniors who need help with the cost of drugs.....and instead, we're subsidizing prescriptions for people making $120k a year from their dividends and savings......why should I pay more taxes to help somebody who's savings accounts earn more than I do?......
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I agree with you. It is wrong to have to change everyone's medical plan and it's wrong to subsidize people who are fully capable of paying for their medication but, unfortunately, some people are so set against helping others that they demand access to the same social benefits even when they do not require them.

The cost one pays for medical services could be determined using the same principals credit card companies use to grant credit. Ones income, age, expenses, etc. are calculated and a limit is set on a Visa. Similarly, ones ability to pay a certain amount for a specific operation could be set.

A married guy supporting a family of four on $20,000/yr would pay considerably less to set a broken arm than a bachelor earning $80,000/yr. Of course, we all know how that would go over.
 
apple0154 said:
unfortunately, some people are so set against helping others that they demand access to the same social benefits even when they do not require them.
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I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that....I recall clearly that it was the Dems who pushed that change on Medicare....are you saying that the Dems are so set against helping others they demanded the same social benefits?.....it was also the Dems who insisted CHIPS provide coverage for people earning $80k a year....and it's the Dems pushing universal coverage.....
 
TuTu Monroe said:
Check this out. This was voted down by the Democrats, which tells us how out of touch they are with the average American.

click here
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The height of b'crap! Why don't you ask your GOP friends to float a bill giving the people the healthcare Congress has NOW? That would be a hell of a lot easier and save a hell of a lot of time. Every Democrat would support it while your guys would fall dead.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
I fear you are right.....if we adopt a European style health care plan our infant mortality rates will mirror those of Europe.....of course, we already determined in an earlier debate that Europe's numbers differ from ours only because they don't make any effort to save low birth weight infants and simply count them as miscarriages....that's certainly what you can expect as the government starts cutting costs.....perhaps this would be a good point to recall that while an Illinois senator Obama pushed presented for vote a law permitting abortion clinics to kill infants accidentally born alive during an abortion procedure.....
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"...we already determined in an earlier debate that Europe's numbers differ from ours only because they don't make any effort to save low birth weight infants and simply count them as miscarriages..."

I guess you determined it but Europe didn't get the memo yet.

http://fisherwy.blogspot.com/2007/09/kimberly-mueller-germany-smallest.html

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-4956843.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8186023.stm

http://www.medicine.uiowa.edu/tiniestbabies/bworder.asp
 
PostmodernProphet said:
???...yes, Tom, I am seriously telling you that.....if a child does not meet minimum standards of length and body weight no extraordinary efforts are made to sustain life and it is listed as stillborn.....didn't we just have a thread on this?......

if you combine the US and European figures for stillbirth/miscarriages and infant mortality and compare the totals you will find that the US numbers are actually better than Europe's........
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Bee Ess. I just listed a bunch of links that contradict your assertion.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that....I recall clearly that it was the Dems who pushed that change on Medicare....are you saying that the Dems are so set against helping others they demanded the same social benefits?.....it was also the Dems who insisted CHIPS provide coverage for people earning $80k a year....and it's the Dems pushing universal coverage.....
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The $80K people can get it but they don't get it free. There's a sliding scale relying on family size and income.

http://www.chipcoverspakids.com/assets/media/pdf/2009_income_guidelines.pdf
 
belme1201 said:
The height of b'crap! Why don't you ask your GOP friends to float a bill giving the people the healthcare Congress has NOW? That would be a hell of a lot easier and save a hell of a lot of time. Every Democrat would support it while your guys would fall dead.
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So, why do the Dems oppose getting the same kind of health coverage we peons would get?
 
belme1201 said:
The height of b'crap! Why don't you ask your GOP friends to float a bill giving the people the healthcare Congress has NOW? That would be a hell of a lot easier and save a hell of a lot of time. Every Democrat would support it while your guys would fall dead.
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Then why aren't your DNC friends trying to float that same bill??
 
belme1201 said:
The height of b'crap! Why don't you ask your GOP friends to float a bill giving the people the healthcare Congress has NOW? That would be a hell of a lot easier and save a hell of a lot of time. Every Democrat would support it while your guys would fall dead.
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...giving?.....isn't that the crux of the problem?.....liberals think the solution is easy....you just pass a bill "giving" everyone healthcare, whether it be Congress's plan or a new plan.....all you have to do is "give" it.....

the problem comes in "paying", not in "giving".......
 
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