On being a blank slate and "free will"

Geeko Sportivo said:
There must be some kind of a Personality disorder that sets people up to "Make up things- or imagine things- and for them- THAT IS HOW THEY SEE IT From NOW ON!

They may be the dumbest nimcompute on the planet- BUT YET THEY THINK THEY ARE SMARTER THAN ANYONE ELSE!

Or they think their inexperienced and often times biased opinions are somehow even credible!

I know many people like this! You can't even get a word in edgewise with them.

I've learned, the hard way, that I learn more from speaking less and listening to others with true experience to back them up!
Click to expand...

All points about both "keeping an open mind" and "Don't keep your mind so open your brains fall out" aside, all intelligent, educated and sane people should accept that there are those unfortunate idiots on the backside of the IQ Bell curve and/or those who choose to live on Mt. Stupid.

Bleeding hearts want to make them equal with those doing all the work....like the celebrities in Hollywood. :rofl2:
 
Althea said:
Hmmm...so you believe that the 'lower' creatures aren't the ones who are making our environment unlivable?

You do realize that the world would be a better place without creatures who have the power to 'reason'.

(Although many non human creatures do)
Click to expand...

No. Why would you assume so?

Why do you think it would be a better place, Althea? One day a giant rock will strike this planet, just like in the past, or a super-volcano will erupt causing a massive extinction event.

If one creature found a way to prevent or survive such climatic events, why do you believe that's a bad thing?
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Why do you think it would be a better place, Althea? One day a giant rock will strike this planet, just like in the past, or a super-volcano will erupt causing a massive extinction event.
Click to expand...
Until then, Earth would be a utopia. We are NOT necessary for the planet's existence. Quite the contrary
 
Dutch Uncle said:
All points about both "keeping an open mind" and "Don't keep your mind so open your brains fall out" aside, all intelligent, educated and sane people should accept that there are those unfortunate idiots on the backside of the IQ Bell curve and/or those who choose to live on Mt. Stupid.

Bleeding hearts want to make them equal with those doing all the work....like the celebrities in Hollywood. :rofl2:
Click to expand...

Bleeding hearts get a bad rap sometimes- BUT I KNOW CONSERVATIVES WITH A BLEEDING HEART!

Even though my best friend is TRUMPTARDED beyond all help- He still gives to charities, gives to bums on the side of the road, and helps me sometimes down at the Soup Kitchen- something my daughter got me into- AND I THINK SHE IS A CONSERVATIVE AS WELL.

I don't have a problem with dumb uneducated people- so long as they have a heart! I know some pretty nice dumb folk!
 
ZenMode said:
I agree that each individual is responsible for their lifetime, at least more so than anyone else would be, but that doesn't give us free will to truly make a choice. The choices we make are the result of thoughts generated by our brain, which are then pushed to our consciousness and result in a decision/action. However, as I mentioned above, we don't control our thoughts. Our thoughts just arise in consciousness as a result of the totality of external influences. So, when you say "choose the experiences", the experiences we ultimately choose are based on the thoughts that we don't control, so there is no true "choice" being made.

For example, you're trying to decide between a chocolate and vanilla cupcake. You may go back and forth, in your mind, for many seconds before deciding on chocolate The idea behind free will is that, despite choosing chocolate, you could have chosen vanilla at that moment. That simply is not the case. At that moment in time, with the entirety of the universe, the culmination of all of your life's experiences, and down to the neurological activity in your brain being as it was, you could have only chosen chocolate. If you rewound time to that exact moment, with the universe exactly as it was, you would pick chocolate over and over and over until the end of time.
Click to expand...

I am actually ambivalent about free will, because physics and modern neuroscience seem to have placed some constraints on free will. We also live inside a circle of cultural expectations and norms which generally limit our free choice if we want to stay inside the circle.

As a Matter of day to day experience though, it feels like we have free will, so I do not invest a lot of thought into the theoretical arm-waving.
 
Althea said:
Until then, Earth would be a utopia. We are NOT necessary for the planet's existence. Quite the contrary
Click to expand...

Define utopia and who is it for? Why have a beautiful garden then let it be destroyed by random chance?

Agreed humans and all other life forms are not necessary for Earth's existence. Both Venus and Mars are doing fine without life on them. :thup:
 
Geeko Sportivo said:
Bleeding hearts get a bad rap sometimes- BUT I KNOW CONSERVATIVES WITH A BLEEDING HEART!

Even though my best friend is TRUMPTARDED beyond all help- He still gives to charities, gives to bums on the side of the road, and helps me sometimes down at the Soup Kitchen- something my daughter got me into- AND I THINK SHE IS A CONSERVATIVE AS WELL.

I don't have a problem with dumb uneducated people- so long as they have a heart! I know some pretty nice dumb folk!
Click to expand...

Most people mean well but seem confused on how to get there.
 
Cypress said:
I am actually ambivalent about free will, because physics and modern neuroscience seem to have placed some constraints on free will. We also live inside a circle of cultural expectations and norms which generally limit our free choice if we want to stay inside the circle.

As a Matter of day to day experience though, it feels like we have free will, so I do not invest a lot of thought into the theoretical arm-waving.
Click to expand...

Sure there are constraints on Free Will. Consider this forum; we have a choice to participate or not. If we participate, we have a choice of following the rules or not. If we follow the rules, we'll survive membership longer but may not have as much fun. If we continually break the rules then we face banishment from the forum. The key is to find a happy medium.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Define utopia and who is it for?
Click to expand...
Those 'lower' creatures that you believe are secondary to humans.


Why have a beautiful garden then let it be destroyed by random chance?
Click to expand...
Random chance is just that. It won't happen. As opposed to deliberate destruction.

Agreed humans and all other life forms are not necessary for Earth's existence. Both Venus and Mars are doing fine without life on them. :thup:
Click to expand...
You have that all twisted. When our brains mutated and we became 'intelligent', the Earth took its first step toward destruction. The Earth is a perfect system. All life forms besides humans contribute to keeping the perfect system in place.
 
Celticguy said:
instinct
Click to expand...
Incorrect. 'Instinct' is the thoughts mentioned in the OP. All animals have an instinct to be afraid of humans. Through repetitive actions, they learn that humans can be beneficial. Once a domesticated animal is being abused, they use reason to expect it when confronted with the action that they associate with the abuse.

'Reason' is developed by retaining memories of repeated actions.


We see better examples with elephants, apes, crows, etc.
 
Althea said:
Those 'lower' creatures that you believe are secondary to humans.


Random chance is just that. It won't happen. As opposed to deliberate destruction.

You have that all twisted. When our brains mutated and we became 'intelligent', the Earth took its first step toward destruction. The Earth is a perfect system. All life forms besides humans contribute to keeping the perfect system in place.
Click to expand...

Dude, the Earth has been through five major extinction events and several smaller calamities. As the link below states, "Extinction is a way of life". Mankind had nothing to do with those even if mankind is responsible for the sixth. Point being; utopia is in the eye of the beholder.

https://www.amnh.org/shelf-life/six-extinctions
"Extinction is a way of life, but there have been mass extinction events where a whole array of species get wiped out."


https://www.livescience.com/mass-extinction-events-that-shaped-Earth.html
The 5 mass extinction events that shaped the history of Earth — and the 6th that's happening now
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Dude, the Earth has been through five major extinction events and several smaller calamities. As the link below states, "Extinction is a way of life". Mankind had nothing to do with those even if mankind is responsible for the sixth. Point being; utopia is in the eye of the beholder.

https://www.amnh.org/shelf-life/six-extinctions
"Extinction is a way of life, but there have been mass extinction events where a whole array of species get wiped out."


https://www.livescience.com/mass-extinction-events-that-shaped-Earth.html
The 5 mass extinction events that shaped the history of Earth — and the 6th that's happening now
Click to expand...
5 whole events? In how many years?
 
ZenMode said:
I was reading through the CS Lewis topic and came across these two thoughts by Cypress that seem to be contradictory.

If our minds are blank slates and our thinking is based on what we learned, read, etc, how do we have free will?

"Our minds start out as blank slates, so to the extent we are "thinking for ourselves" it is almost entirely based on what we learned, read, digested, or considered from the work and ideas of others."

"Humans have the free will to act on a moral conscience, or not."
Click to expand...

We have reason. We can acknowledge mistakes in our previous thoughts. we can rewrite our thoughts.

we can see how something in the world may be, but needs to be changed.

there definitely is free will.

slave owners and dehumanizers like george soros and satan wish to deny this truth.

the real god wants to be chosen freely because you understand that love powers the universe, not compelled action.
 
ZenMode said:
I was reading through the CS Lewis topic and came across these two thoughts by Cypress that seem to be contradictory.

If our minds are blank slates and our thinking is based on what we learned, read, etc, how do we have free will?

"Our minds start out as blank slates, so to the extent we are "thinking for ourselves" it is almost entirely based on what we learned, read, digested, or considered from the work and ideas of others."

"Humans have the free will to act on a moral conscience, or not."
Click to expand...

Do you or do you not feel bad when someone else is suffering? Are morality and ethics learned or are they inherent?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top