On the heels of Sean Bell, now this. WTF!!

Never lived in South Central, but I imagine that they centered around the same things that sparked riots in Detroit in '67, where I did live. Police murder, brutality, set-ups and false imprisonment, disparities in sentencing, and a host of political and economic problems resulting from overt and completely indisputable racism and oppression.

Not sure if you saw my edit but hopefully I framed it a little better. I was in school in L.A. at the time of the riots which were not all that far from campus. They were related of course to the imfamous Rodney King beating. You mention it may take violence to bring about more attention or change but we have seen some of that violence. Now whether some change has come about or not can be debated. Maybe more violence is needed I don't know.
 
The notion that they "ran from the police" is bullshit.

If you see the video prior to the stop, you'll see that they pulled over as soon as the lights on the pig car came on.

By the time this gets to court the police will be claiming that the occupants of the car were firing Uzis from the car as they were pulled over.

What the police and criminal injustice system does to blacks is blatantly racist .. but it's going to take more than just black people to end this on-going terrorism.

The hard truth is that we are going to have to react violently before any real substanative attention is paid.


I agree with most of what you say. The truth is if violence is the reaction then the cycle will continue. It has not stopped it in the past. What is needed is for the people who dont feel threatend personally by this type of corruption ( WHITE PEOPLE ) to join the fight to stop this stupidity. Yes Im talking to you guys on this thread who have found it your duty to defend the cops in this thread.

THIS IS WRONG! I dont care what color the cops or the victims are. I dont care if they just ran from the police. THE POLICE ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO HAND OUT BEATINGS! they are there to intercede in crime and bring the perps to jail. They are not there to punish people.


Stop defending the cops just because the people taken into custody are black. Get a grip and realize this hurts every single American when our government entities act like this to anyone.
 
If I had brown skin, I might be tempted to run from the cops, to save myself a few broken ribs. There are a lot of (mostly white) people who can't comprehend why people of color might be afraid of the cops. Or, why a black church leader might say allegedly inflammatory things about what the government does to blacks.

I don't want to see any riots. But I can totally understand the latent anger in disenfranchised communities against the abuses of government power.

Well, what needs to happen is white people need to become active on this and go to demonstrations and go to marches . Hispanics too, they suffer a lot of discrimination and many of them have been victims of hate crimes and police brutality as well. If you have only blacks demonstrating and protesting then it can be framed as a black thing. This is a human thing, this is a civil rights thing. But you just can’t get people up off their damned couches. It drives me crazy.

And of course Desh is right. Anyone defending this shit, is part of the problem, period.
 
Well, what needs to happen is white people need to become active on this and go to demonstrations and go to marches . Hispanics too, they suffer a lot of discrimination and many of them have been victims of hate crimes and police brutality as well. If you have only blacks demonstrating and protesting then it can be framed as a black thing. This is a human thing, this is a civil rights thing. But you just can’t get people up off their damned couches. It drives me crazy.

And of course Desh is right. Anyone defending this shit, is part of the problem, period.

that is so true. Solidarity is so important; as the civil rights movement taught us.
 
Not sure if you saw my edit but hopefully I framed it a little better. I was in school in L.A. at the time of the riots which were not all that far from campus. They were related of course to the imfamous Rodney King beating. You mention it may take violence to bring about more attention or change but we have seen some of that violence. Now whether some change has come about or not can be debated. Maybe more violence is needed I don't know.

Sorry, I did miss your edit.

Unfortunately, violence works my brother. That is an unfortunate and inconvienient honest truth. The unspoken truth about the Civil Rights Era is that Malcolm X was every bit as responsible for the gains of civil rights as Dr. King was. King is the more palatable American hero.

Violence against violence is necessary and is the first law of human nature. Malolm's words of "By any means necessary" are as important and intelligent as "I have a dream."

I can post thousands of cases of gross police brutality and murder. These would be just the known cases. What happens when the cameras are off?

Almost ALL violent riots sparked by blacks in America have been reactions to overt gross police murder and brutality. That murder and brutality continues even to this day. It's a brutality that police not only don't inflict on innocent white people, they don't even inflict it on white criminals.

Obama notwithstanding, is there any question why blacks recognize we are only relatively free in America? America would not stand still for this kind of abuse of white people.

I do not advocate violence, but I recognize that violence against violence is often necessary as a last resort. I have no idea, no clue, not the slightest imaginative thought what in the fuck else is it going to take before white America stops closing its eyes to this obvious, studied, documented, and proven truth.

I have no goddamn fucking idea what it's going to take.
 
I agree with most of what you say. The truth is if violence is the reaction then the cycle will continue. It has not stopped it in the past. What is needed is for the people who dont feel threatend personally by this type of corruption ( WHITE PEOPLE ) to join the fight to stop this stupidity. Yes Im talking to you guys on this thread who have found it your duty to defend the cops in this thread.

THIS IS WRONG! I dont care what color the cops or the victims are. I dont care if they just ran from the police. THE POLICE ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO HAND OUT BEATINGS! they are there to intercede in crime and bring the perps to jail. They are not there to punish people.


Stop defending the cops just because the people taken into custody are black. Get a grip and realize this hurts every single American when our government entities act like this to anyone.

All it takes for evil to prosper is for good people to do nothing.

Good people are doing nothing and THAT my sister is the problem. All else is a reaction to the problem.

America isn't going to do a damn thing about this .. just as it hasn't done a damn thing about the thousands and thousands of other cases of gross criminal police behavior.

I guess I'm no longer 3/5ths of a human .. maybe 4/5ths now .. but not quite fully human in America.
 
Sorry, I did miss your edit.

Unfortunately, violence works my brother. That is an unfortunate and inconvienient honest truth. The unspoken truth about the Civil Rights Era is that Malcolm X was every bit as responsible for the gains of civil rights as Dr. King was. King is the more palatable American hero.

Violence against violence is necessary and is the first law of human nature. Malolm's words of "By any means necessary" are as important and intelligent as "I have a dream."

I can post thousands of cases of gross police brutality and murder. These would be just the known cases. What happens when the cameras are off?

Almost ALL violent riots sparked by blacks in America have been reactions to overt gross police murder and brutality. That murder and brutality continues even to this day. It's a brutality that police not only don't inflict on innocent white people, they don't even inflict it on white criminals.

Obama notwithstanding, is there any question why blacks recognize we are only relatively free in America? America would not stand still for this kind of abuse of white people.

I do not advocate violence, but I recognize that violence against violence is often necessary as a last resort. I have no idea, no clue, not the slightest imaginative thought what in the fuck else is it going to take before white America stops closing its eyes to this obvious, studied, documented, and proven truth.

I have no goddamn fucking idea what it's going to take.

Well, I’m not always against violence. It has been called for at times. Certainly violence was called for when we had slavery. Certainly violence was called for when we had lynchings. When we had Jim Crow, when we had people beaten up, some to death, for trying to vote. Violence was called for.
Maybe violence is called for again. I feel that as a white girl who never even gave a thought to carrying around pot when I was in my 20's, and didn’t even know that black people had to give it a thought, I’m far from qualified to say. But I would join in protests and demonstrations on this, for a certainty.
 
Riot in Phily... but scatter riot. Bascially have groups of four walk around the city, and when you see a cop, beat their ass. With enough groups, the cops won't be able to respond because they are getting thier asses beat too. Teach those assholes a lesson.
 
All it takes for evil to prosper is for good people to do nothing.

Good people are doing nothing and THAT my sister is the problem. All else is a reaction to the problem.

America isn't going to do a damn thing about this .. just as it hasn't done a damn thing about the thousands and thousands of other cases of gross criminal police behavior.

I guess I'm no longer 3/5ths of a human .. maybe 4/5ths now .. but not quite fully human in America.


You are 100% human its the system that is 4/5 human. I totally agree with you in your frustration. When it degrades to violence then the fools who refuse to see the facts are given the opportunity to say "See , they are violent people and its no wonder the cops have to treat them like this". I know its a hard sell Bac and I know its supreme unfairness but Im just cant leave the MLK and Gandi camp on this one. It takes the strength of people to so support the rightness of their position that they are willing to never fall into failing behavior of their oppressor. I really think that once we have someone like Obama at the helm we can make headway into these deep seeded failings of our country.
 
You are 100% human its the system that is 4/5 human. I totally agree with you in your frustration. When it degrades to violence then the fools who refuse to see the facts are given the opportunity to say "See , they are violent people and its no wonder the cops have to treat them like this". I know its a hard sell Bac and I know its supreme unfairness but Im just cant leave the MLK and Gandi camp on this one. It takes the strength of people to so support the rightness of their position that they are willing to never fall into failing behavior of their oppressor. I really think that once we have someone like Obama at the helm we can make headway into these deep seeded failings of our country.

It really would turn out bad if they did get violent in the long run, they just have to take the republican mantra though and kick lots of ass to win the war!
 
Well, I’m not always against violence. It has been called for at times. Certainly violence was called for when we had slavery. Certainly violence was called for when we had lynchings. When we had Jim Crow, when we had people beaten up, some to death, for trying to vote. Violence was called for.
Maybe violence is called for again. I feel that as a white girl who never even gave a thought to carrying around pot when I was in my 20's, and didn’t even know that black people had to give it a thought, I’m far from qualified to say. But I would join in protests and demonstrations on this, for a certainty.

For a lot of blacks who've lived these horrors over and over again, and who recognize that violence against violence is sometimes necessary, we also recognize that it does not come without cost. If violence becomes necessary to bring greater attention to this blatant racism it will come at the cost of innocent lives and a widening of the chasm between blacks and whites.

No one expects Obama to be the Black President, and most recognize that he must be cognizant not to be percieved to be, however, he is the only candidate who brings any passion to this issue. He knows it because he's worked against it. I believe he will bring that passion to the presidency and he will address it.

Bill Clinton was the greatest incarceration president America has ever known. None have been better for the INDUSTRY of crime and the prison/industrial complex than Bill Clinton.

You support this cause when you support the only person who has any desire to do something about it.

In the capacity I was working in, I found myself at a lot of antiwar demonstrations in DC and all over the country. I was often asked "why aren't there more black people here?" My response was always, when was the last time you attended a demonstration with black people against causes that are devastating their communities ...

silence
 
In the capacity I was working in, I found myself at a lot of antiwar demonstrations in DC and all over the country. I was often asked "why aren't there more black people here?" My response was always, when was the last time you attended a demonstration with black people against causes that are devastating their communities ...

silence

You know how you vividly remember certain incidents from your youth? You just brought one back to me. It was in high school and they let us out of class to protest the U.S. going into Kuwait in 1990. We all stood on the main quad of campus and there was a microphone for students to speak. While this was happening two black gals walked by me talking to each other and one said 'you know they wouldn't let us do this for MLK' and the other girl agreed with her. She was obviously referring to whole school having this type of rally for an important black issue (or an American issue but one that is important to black folk).
 
You know how you vividly remember certain incidents from your youth? You just brought one back to me. It was in high school and they let us out of class to protest the U.S. going into Kuwait in 1990. We all stood on the main quad of campus and there was a microphone for students to speak. While this was happening two black gals walked by me talking to each other and one said 'you know they wouldn't let us do this for MLK' and the other girl agreed with her. She was obviously referring to whole school having this type of rally for an important black issue (or an American issue but one that is important to black folk).

What you recognize is the black perspective of American society.
 
There you go.

It is what I was talking about in my earlier post. Its time to stop seeing it as a black issue. Its an American issue. If the cops will treat those they see as powerless like this they will one day make the next step. Its the "I said nothing when they came for the Jews because I was not a Jew" mind set that allows the corruption to grow. One day maybe we will see ourselfs as one people. We do not yet see it that way. I really think the symbolism alone of Obama being president as a great help to set us on a better path. I even like the fact that he has Muslim family members. How do you think the muslim world will react to America electing a man like Obama? They will have to stop and take notice that the American people may have had an epiffany about who they want to be.
 
For a lot of blacks who've lived these horrors over and over again, and who recognize that violence against violence is sometimes necessary, we also recognize that it does not come without cost. If violence becomes necessary to bring greater attention to this blatant racism it will come at the cost of innocent lives and a widening of the chasm between blacks and whites.

No one expects Obama to be the Black President, and most recognize that he must be cognizant not to be percieved to be, however, he is the only candidate who brings any passion to this issue. He knows it because he's worked against it. I believe he will bring that passion to the presidency and he will address it.

Bill Clinton was the greatest incarceration president America has ever known. None have been better for the INDUSTRY of crime and the prison/industrial complex than Bill Clinton.

You support this cause when you support the only person who has any desire to do something about it.

In the capacity I was working in, I found myself at a lot of antiwar demonstrations in DC and all over the country. I was often asked "why aren't there more black people here?" My response was always, when was the last time you attended a demonstration with black people against causes that are devastating their communities ...

silence

The whole point of the corporate-sponsored rightwing wedge issues is to keep working people of all colors alienated, and divided. Your totally right about two things: Bill Clinton's record on american justice was atrocious. And fancy-pants upper middle class activists can, and are, clueless to a large extent about working class and racial issues. I see it in the environmental activism I engage in. It's lilly white, man. Totally upper middle class. Which is kind of sad. Because the environment affects us all, and to a large degree, environmental degradation affects poor, working communities of color most of all. Where do you think they put the chemical plants? In poor neighborhoods. Where are the toxic hot spots, and industrial cancer clusters? They ain't in Beverly Hills.
 
The whole point of the corporate-sponsored rightwing wedge issues is to keep working people of all colors alienated, and divided. Your totally right about two things: Bill Clinton's record on american justice was atrocious. And fancy-pants upper middle class activists can, and are, clueless to a large extent about working class and racial issues. I see it in the environmental activism I engage in. It's lilly white, man. Totally upper middle class. Which is kind of sad. Because the environment affects us all, and to a large degree, environmental degradation affects poor, working communities of color most of all. Where do you think they put the chemical plants? In poor neighborhoods. Where are the toxic hot spots, and industrial cancer clusters? They ain't in Beverly Hills.

Well, on the other hand, you can’t expect people working for minimum wage, maybe lucky enough to be living that “uniquely American experience” of working three minimum wage jobs, to really be putting in time on the environment. I’m lazy as all hell, I’ll tell you right out. If I don’t one day a week to lay around doing nothing, I bitch about it until next week. And I don’t work three minimum wage, which you know are going to be physical labor, jobs. I’d laugh in your face if I did, and you started bitching to me about the environment. I’ll be worked to death long before that happens, is what I’d tell you.

And calling middle class whites who are activists “fancy pants” isn’t helpful. I hate when people pull that on me. Sorry I wasn’t born poor and have nice shoes, does that mean I have no right to care? But that’s nothing, a small thing, the point is we are in a bad position today. In the 60’s you had the unique occurrences of having an anti-war movement, a civil rights movement, and a woman’s movement, all powerful and big in their own rights, who could get some shit done.

We just don’t have that now. That doesn’t mean that events can’t so transpire to put into play several different, large, and juiced, movements, but we don’t have it right now.

If the weather effects of global warming get worse and worse, and if certain things occur within the black c community to really incite a large, civil rights movement up again, you could have two very powerful movements there. I don’t know where the third would come from unless, there’s a draft.
 
There you go.

It is what I was talking about in my earlier post. Its time to stop seeing it as a black issue. Its an American issue. If the cops will treat those they see as powerless like this they will one day make the next step. Its the "I said nothing when they came for the Jews because I was not a Jew" mind set that allows the corruption to grow. One day maybe we will see ourselfs as one people. We do not yet see it that way. I really think the symbolism alone of Obama being president as a great help to set us on a better path. I even like the fact that he has Muslim family members. How do you think the muslim world will react to America electing a man like Obama? They will have to stop and take notice that the American people may have had an epiffany about who they want to be.

I could not agree with you more. This SHOULD be an American issue, but it isn't. Until white America steps up to the plate, it's still a black issue.

I agree with your thoughts on Obama and hopefully he can help guide this nation towards oneness.
 
Well, on the other hand, you can’t expect people working for minimum wage, maybe lucky enough to be living that “uniquely American experience” of working three minimum wage jobs, to really be putting in time on the environment. I’m lazy as all hell, I’ll tell you right out. If I don’t one day a week to lay around doing nothing, I bitch about it until next week. And I don’t work three minimum wage, which you know are going to be physical labor, jobs. I’d laugh in your face if I did, and you started bitching to me about the environment. I’ll be worked to death long before that happens, is what I’d tell you.

And calling middle class whites who are activists “fancy pants” isn’t helpful. I hate when people pull that on me. Sorry I wasn’t born poor and have nice shoes, does that mean I have no right to care? But that’s nothing, a small thing, the point is we are in a bad position today. In the 60’s you had the unique occurrences of having an anti-war movement, a civil rights movement, and a woman’s movement, all powerful and big in their own rights, who could get some shit done.

We just don’t have that now. That doesn’t mean that events can’t so transpire to put into play several different, large, and juiced, movements, but we don’t have it right now.

If the weather effects of global warming get worse and worse, and if certain things occur within the black c community to really incite a large, civil rights movement up again, you could have two very powerful movements there. I don’t know where the third would come from unless, there’s a draft.


I don't know what it will take. Your right, that when some gal or guy is working three minimum wage jobs, the system just wears them down. I think there's a good reason cons don't like higher education, free education and healthcare, and minimum wage hikes. They want a permanent pool of undereducated, lower paid workers.

I think all the activist movements could do a better job of fostering solidarity and collective action. Environmental justice is becoming a bigger thing in california, to address the issues related to environmental degradation in disenfranchised communities. They can't just be focusing on the spotted owl, or whatever.

Yeah, a draft might be the only thing to get people of all classes to opposed McCain's war in iraq.
 
You guys are right on top of it.


This is why the current republican party picks issues to devide us. Those black people get special treatment, the latinos are stealing OUR jobs, Muslims hate us for our freedoms and so on and so on. Devide and conquer.
 
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The whole point of the corporate-sponsored rightwing wedge issues is to keep working people of all colors alienated, and divided. Your totally right about two things: Bill Clinton's record on american justice was atrocious. And fancy-pants upper middle class activists can, and are, clueless to a large extent about working class and racial issues. I see it in the environmental activism I engage in. It's lilly white, man. Totally upper middle class. Which is kind of sad. Because the environment affects us all, and to a large degree, environmental degradation affects poor, working communities of color most of all. Where do you think they put the chemical plants? In poor neighborhoods. Where are the toxic hot spots, and industrial cancer clusters? They ain't in Beverly Hills.

No one knows the issues you speak of better than the person in your avatar my brother. I've been up close and personal and I can tell you that passion is real.

But she was drummed out of the Democratic Party because she had the audacity to speak truth to power.

I've been in on the studies of how bad environmental policy adversly affects low income communities. I can point you to the statistics that demonstrate higher incidence of asthma in children and higher incidence of cancer in people who live near landfills.

But a divided nation is one that easier to control.

The puppetmasters know this very well.
 
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