144,000 just means a lot.. Its symbolic. Jesus will not be ruling an earthly kingdom.
Rapture Doctrine invented by John Darby in 1830 AD
- Thread starter kudzu
- Start date
144,000 just means a lot.. Its symbolic. Jesus will not be ruling an earthly kingdom.
Irish Exit
Verified User
The Bible says otherwise though you would have a hard time arguing that 144K is symbolic but heaven is not if you were trying to be true to the word.
Last edited:
Irish Exit
Verified User
The 144K will be the most the fire marshal lets into God's disco per the Good Book. They could be like 1,972 Muslims and their 72 virgins each. Totally up to the bouncer at the door. Everybody else gets eternally left behind on the new and improved third rock from the sun or unexisted.
Four Main Perspectives
All of these approaches are inherently symbolic except for the futurist approach, which is literal (although some futurists also believe the number to be symbolic).
Historicists associate the 144,000 with the Church. They believe the number is symbolic and indicates the totality of the Church.
Preterists believe that 144,000 is a symbolic number of Jewish Christians who escaped the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.
Futurists claim that the 144,000 are either a remnant of the Jewish people (literal) or the last generation of Christians alive during the Tribulation (symbolic).
Idealists consider the 144,000 to be a symbolic number representing all God's people throughout all history under the old and new covenants (i.e. spiritual Israel).
The tribulation was NOT worldwide. It was local as Jesus said it would be.. He told them to flee to the hills. If it was worldwide, fleeing to the hills would have been futile. It would not save them..
And it would happen within a generation (40 YEARS) after the crucifixion.. Masada fell in 70 AD and that was the end of their world. It was the end of Temple Judiasm as well.
Last edited:
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
idiot troll......he created churches, not synagogues........
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
or Christ returns, judges humanity and rules over heaven and earth and the ones who've chosen not to believe him are excluded for eternity........doesn't the Bible speak of a renewed earth?........
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
kind of hard to get new members in a church that thinks that......the Netherlands Reformed Church has a similar belief.......all 143,999 of them...........
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
symbolic number, real kingdom.....
Mason Michaels
Verified User
More nonsense,numerous prophecies need to be fulfilled
You mean about the Euphrates river dying up.. Water often symbolizes people in scripture.. and you may recall that Cyrus diverted the river and attacked Babylon. and conquered it..
Try reading Matthew 24 again..
John of Patmos tells his first century readers that the things revealed in the book “must soon take place” (1:1; 22:6) and that “the time is near” (1:3; 22:10).
These statements are generalizations, so they do not require that every event prophesied in the book must be fulfilled in the first century, but the generalizations do provide us with a “general” idea of how we should understand the book.
The bulk of John’s prophecy concerns something that was going to happen in his own times..
John 18:36 King James Version (KJV) 36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Mason Michaels
Verified User
You misinterpret the meaning of "this world",it mean world system.
So you are saying Jesus didn't mean that his kingdom was not of this world? Or that there was NO Temple because Jesus was the Temple.. The kingdom and the New Jerusalem are spiritual. Scofield has eaten your brain.
The Olivet Discourse is not the end times, but rather about Messiah’s proclamation that the temple in Jerusalem would be destroyed... Its the end of an age, NOT the end of the world.
in Matthew 24:34 Messiah told us that all of the things that he said would be fulfilled in that generation:
“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.”
You couldn't avoid a world wide tribulation by escaping to the hills.
Remember what the Jewish leaders said when they handed Messiah over to be crucified:
“And all the people answered and said, “His blood be on us and on our children.” Matthew 27:25
in Matthew 24:34 Messiah told us that all of the things that he said would be fulfilled in that generation:
“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.”
You couldn't avoid a world wide tribulation by escaping to the hills.
Remember what the Jewish leaders said when they handed Messiah over to be crucified:
“And all the people answered and said, “His blood be on us and on our children.” Matthew 27:25
Mason Michaels
Verified User
I don't know Scofield,never read Scofield.
There is a difference between the physical world,and the world system!
That rest is your off topic rambling!
OK.. What does "world system" mean.. I don't think I ever saw those words in the Bible.
Mason Michaels
Verified User
That's the definition of "this world".
Jesus wasn't talking about the big rock called Earth!
Jesus' world was pretty small.. Didn't extend beyond the Med Sea.. and Jesus told them to escape the Tribulation by fleeing to the hills.. so his "world" didn't extend beyond Palestine.
Mason Michaels
Verified User
Jesus was YHWH incarnated his world is the physical universe,and the Spiritual Kingdom.
Your reply and Phantasmal's like shows you're not believers in the divinity of Christ!