Running the government "like a corporation"

Yes, I know that you don't think it's a good idea, because it would bust up your little entitlement gravy train and force you to have to actually get a job so you could pay taxes and vote. The reason we are in such major debt now, is sorry ass punks like you, who sponge off the wealthy because you think you are somehow entitled to their money.

Isn't it interesting, no one can articulate why this would be unfair, how it would be unconstitutional,

It would be unconstitutional because of the one man one vote principle in the constitution. It would also be a violation of equal protection and it would take away our rights without due process.

or why it wouldn't work to reduce our national debt. All you can do is throw out a bunch of names and false outrage, and cling to a system that has given us multi-trillion-dollar debt.

If nothing else, it exposed the absolute fraud in the author of this thread's assertion we should be running the government like a corporation. None of you are the least bit interested in seeing the country run like a corporation or reducing the national debt. Most of you think like Waterhead, that it's government's job to make everybody happy and not generate positive revenue. It is precisely this way of thinking which has put us where we are, so why would a pinhead point out the national debt and post a smart-ass thread about government being run like a corporation? Political opportunism, that's why!

You have all been exposed for the frauds and phonies you are!

I assure you, giving the rich a weighted vote would do nothing against our debt. You are using that as a big thing and it's not. They would be just as likely to get us into hell as anything else. It's easy to cut the debt, just like they did in Denmark with their massive spending: raise taxes or cut spending. You don't seem to want to do that.
 
We are trillions in debt and it has nothing to do with social programs. It has to do with not wanting to pay for what we buy. I would pay for what we buy, you and other conservatives don't want to.

What an utterly bs one-sided argument.

Yeah the problem is that we just aren't raising taxes enough! Not that we spend too much money.

I guess in your world when a family goes into debt, they just need to make more money!
 
"If nothing else, it exposed the absolute fraud in the author of this thread's assertion we should be running the government like a corporation. "

Where did I "assert" that?

You're such an ignorant fuck. That was what people in the Bush admin were putting out there back in 2001. That's what I was referring to. Should have known you wouldn't even be aware of that.

The Bush government is actually doing the nitty-gritty management of the US government really well.

And now, does anyone realize how irrelevant that is to the office of the president?
 
You asserted it by your choice of title for this thread, moron! You also asserted that you think our national debt is a problem worthy of pointing out with a sarcastic statement about running the country like a corporation, which you no more believe in than the man in the moon.

You don't care about fixing the problem of the national debt, you can't even comprehend the difference between the wealthy and those who pay tax! I've had to point it out in this thread, over and over, repeatedly... and no sooner than I post it in 96pt bold type, some liberal comes along and posts some comment about my plan to give rich people more votes! You're not listening, you're not paying attention, and you're so hell bent on continuing your little charade on the American people, you can't even be intellectually honest. You have to misrepresent things I say, and try to turn what I say into abstracts you can attack.

I do care about fixing the national debt, but how the fuck does giving the rich a weighted vote have anything to do with that?

Dumbass.
 
Not at all. Dr. Williams and myself are both clear on this, every man would still have a vote, just as it always has been, no one would be denied a vote. Also, no one would be denied the ability to pay federal income tax, everyone would have the same equal opportunity to contribute to the tax revenues. If you are concerned with a particular 'group' having more influence or power, you could simply reduce their tax liability or increase others to their level. It's all perfectly fair and reasonable, and not in conflict with anything our Founding Fathers endorsed or supported.

Every word of this paragraph is wrong. It is completely wrong. Those on the lower end would have one half a vote, or one third (uh oh!), or one quarter..whatever it would be based on your "system." It's dishonest to say that it is consistent w/ a principle of "one person, one vote" - hopelessly so.

Then, you're idea to "compensate" and "make things equal" would be to disproportionately balance the tax burden down to the lower classes - either telling them they have to pay much more to have equal representation, or that those who make more could opt out of most of their taxes, if they'd prefer to sacrifice their extra votes.

You're really a loon. It's been said many times, but it's worth repeating.
 
See... the problem you people seem to be having is articulating WHY!

It's real easy to say someone is nuts.... USCITIZEN, YOU ARE NUTS! ...see?
Of course, the challenge is, pointing out why or how this is the case. If you can't do that, it seems to me that you have no basis for your argument. So far, you haven't done this, and I encourage you to do so, if this is the argument you wish to make. Indeed, I challenge you to do this, IF you can!

Tell us why it is "nuts" to believe that people should have voting power in proportion to the amount of money they are contributing to the country in income taxation? Tell me how it is "nuts" to believe that would reduce our national debt, or completely eliminate it by generating profit rather than loss? Tell me why it is "nuts" to think our government could operate on the same principles as corporations with stockholders.

Anytime you are ready.....

*crickets chirping*

1/3
 
Yes Bush sees it, in fact, he has to propose it and sign it. But he has to do so with the understanding that it has to be approved by Congress as well. He also understands that if he even reduces the amount of 'built-in' increase in funding for precious entitlement programs, the opposition will deem it a "cut" and attack him with it. So the president (any president) is in a precarious position, because the operation of vital federal government services depend on the budget being passed by Congress.

While we are on the subject of President Bush, which was not the topic of the thread... Let's also discuss Walter E. Williams brilliantly articulated point, with the 'votes for taxes' idea. His fundamental concern is, the danger of having no tax liability. It has become popular for presidents who cut taxes, to literally remove millions from the tax roles completely. He criticizes Bush for this in his article, by the way. The problem, he says, is that America keeps releasing people from their obligation to pay federal income tax, and they remain in control of how the money is spent and how much tax is charged to whom. He points out Madison's concerns over land owners having too much power, but the very point Madison made, also warns of the danger in too much power by those who owned no land.

He proposes a correction for the problem, and that is... one man, one vote, plus extra votes for every $10k in Federal Income Tax paid. I would even be more Liberal than Mr. Williams and allow an extra vote if you paid ANY Federal Income Tax at all! I might even be inclined to add a half vote for the indigent, just for being a citizen of the US! But the bottom line would be, those who are paying the most income tax, would have the most political power in votes. This has absolutely nothing to do with wealth, and everything to do with fairness.

Yes, you're such a liberal. I have two votes and Bill Gates has as much as the state of Ohio.
 
Well first off, this isn't a logical argument, since you've provided nothing to back up your claims besides proposing that a lot of people agree with you. Second off, fuck you.

Evidence to back up my claims:
From The Declaration of Independence (our founding document)
When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.


I've highlighted the relevant points for you.

And thanks, but I don't need to fuck myself.

Democracy is a system in which the people vote and the majority rules. It doesn't matter if you think your system would be "fair", it's not democratic.

First of all, it is completely democratic. If you paid 10% of the taxes, you would get 10% of the votes, if you paid 50% of the taxes, you would get 50% of the votes, and if you paid 98% of the taxes, you would get 98% of the votes! Nothing un-democratic about that.

Secondly, we do not live in a "democracy," we live in a "representative republic."
 
Not at all. Dr. Williams and myself are both clear on this, every man would still have a vote, just as it always has been, no one would be denied a vote. Also, no one would be denied the ability to pay federal income tax, everyone would have the same equal opportunity to contribute to the tax revenues. If you are concerned with a particular 'group' having more influence or power, you could simply reduce their tax liability or increase others to their level. It's all perfectly fair and reasonable, and not in conflict with anything our Founding Fathers endorsed or supported.

The principle of one-man one-vote is that everyones vote be equal. If you have two votes and everyone else has one vote, that's a nice logical loophole you've found there, but it wouldn't pass. The point is that everyones vote be proportionately equal, not that everyone literally have only one vote, and it's OK for you to have more than someone else.

Dumbass.
 
"First of all, it is completely democratic. If you paid 10% of the taxes, you would get 10% of the votes, if you paid 50% of the taxes, you would get 50% of the votes, and if you paid 98% of the taxes, you would get 98% of the votes! Nothing un-democratic about that. "

You are equating income tax with human beings.

You're cracked; truly, undeniably cracked.
 
I hope everyone is checking this out; the Dixie logic here is a rival for one-third; it's really getting to that point....
 
Evidence to back up my claims:
From The Declaration of Independence (our founding document)
When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.


I've highlighted the relevant points for you.

And thanks, but I don't need to fuck myself.

Dixie, the declaration didn't make a rational argument for natural rights. It just made a pretty flowery statement that said "Everyone has natural rights". I'm sorry, I disagree with that. Everyone used to believe in it as a justification of rights, but that was whenever everyone believed in God. Just because it's in the declaration doesn't make it true. I believe in the utilitarian justification for natural rights, not the natural justification. And there are a lot of people who ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND the concept of natural rights that agree with me on that. The fact that the declaration declared we should have rights is whats most important about it.
First of all, it is completely democratic. If you paid 10% of the taxes, you would get 10% of the votes, if you paid 50% of the taxes, you would get 50% of the votes, and if you paid 98% of the taxes, you would get 98% of the votes! Nothing un-democratic about that.

Dumbass. A basic prerequisite for democracy is that no one has more power than another person.
Secondly, we do not live in a "democracy," we live in a "representative republic."

"Republic" has a vague meaning. You could technically say this was republican. But you are justifying it as democratic. We are a democratic representative republic. You would take away the "democratic" part.
 
Every word of this paragraph is wrong. It is completely wrong. Those on the lower end would have one half a vote, or one third (uh oh!), or one quarter..whatever it would be based on your "system." It's dishonest to say that it is consistent w/ a principle of "one person, one vote" - hopelessly so.

Then, you're idea to "compensate" and "make things equal" would be to disproportionately balance the tax burden down to the lower classes - either telling them they have to pay much more to have equal representation, or that those who make more could opt out of most of their taxes, if they'd prefer to sacrifice their extra votes.

You're really a loon. It's been said many times, but it's worth repeating.

No, you can't "opt out" of paying your tax liability, Waterhead already asked me that one. As I have stated (repeatedly now), every man would still have a vote, not a half or a third or a fourth, as you seem to think.

Also, this system is not based on "wealth" at all, only on taxes paid into the system in the form of federal income tax. If you are rich and earn no income, you wouldn't get any extra votes. Only people who paid over $10k in income tax, would get extra votes, as they have put more money into the kitty. No one can tell me why this is not fair, because it is perfectly fair and reasonable. Your argument is, those who pay nothing should have an equal or greater voice than those who pay everything, and out of the other side of your mouth, you bitch about the national debt!
 
I hope everyone is checking this out; the Dixie logic here is a rival for one-third; it's really getting to that point....

And let me again take this opportunity to point out, Dixie didn't come up with this brilliant plan and can't take responsibility for it. The idea is espoused by professor of Economics at George Mason University, Walter E. Williams. Dixie just happens to agree with the professor, who is markedly smarter than you.

Everybody needs to check THAT out!
 
And let me again take this opportunity to point out, Dixie didn't come up with this brilliant plan and can't take responsibility for it. The idea is espoused by professor of Economics at George Mason University, Walter E. Williams. Dixie just happens to agree with the professor, who is markedly smarter than you.

Everybody needs to check THAT out!

WILLIAM WALTERS IS A FUCKING LUNATIC MORON! YES I DO KNOW WHO HE IS!

Only he'd come up with a dumbass plan like this. A lot of very intelligent people get very crazy in old age, and he's one of those.
 
Voting isn't just about electing government to decide how to spend your money. It comes down to legislation that effects how we live our lives. Giving wealthy people (yes, wealthy people pay more in taxes and would get more votes under your system. end of story on that one) more power would only allow them to skew our legislative process to benefit themselves. Deregulate industries, change tax codes, etc. Then you'd get the social nutjobs like yourself who'd find ways to finance their way into subverting the constitution by doing things like outlawing abortion.

On the side, you'd work the budget in God knows what way. It may be more balanced, but it would probably just wind up being a huge tax refund for the wealthy - a rebate that is, so they still get to keep their vote by paying lots of taxes but get all the money back later in the year.

The system is stupid and untenable.
 
"As I have stated (repeatedly now), every man would still have a vote, not a half or a third or a fourth, as you seem to think. "

You really are bad with math. If everyone gets 1 vote, but people who make more get 2, 3, 4 or even more votes, the "one vote" that is allocated to those on the bottom is that much less representation. It is not truly a full vote anymore.

You're a TOTAL buffoon. I can't believe you're even trying to argue this is democratic or equal.
 
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