Sanders: "Obviously, we are taking on the entire Democratic establishment.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/14/opinion/how-drones-help-al-qaeda.html?_r=0

[h=1]How Drones Help Al Qaeda[/h]By IBRAHIM MOTHANAJUNE 13, 2012
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Sana, Yemen
“DEAR OBAMA, when a U.S. drone missile kills a child in Yemen, the father will go to war with you, guaranteed. Nothing to do with Al Qaeda,” a Yemeni lawyerwarned on Twitter last month. President Obama should keep this message in mind before ordering more drone strikes like Wednesday’s, which local officials saykilled 27 people, or the May 15 strike that killed at least eight Yemeni civilians.
Drone strikes are causing more and more Yemenis to hate America and join radical militants; they are not driven by ideology but rather by a sense of revenge and despair. Robert Grenier, the former head of the C.I.A.’s counterterrorism center, has warned that the American drone program in Yemen risks turning the country into a safe haven for Al Qaeda like the tribal areas of Pakistan — “the Arabian equivalent of Waziristan.”
Anti-Americanism is far less prevalent in Yemen than in Pakistan. But rather than winning the hearts and minds of Yemeni civilians, America is alienating them by killing their relatives and friends. Indeed, the drone program is leading to the Talibanization of vast tribal areas and the radicalization of people who could otherwise be America’s allies in the fight against terrorism in Yemen.


The first known drone strike in Yemen to be authorized by Mr. Obama, in late 2009, left 14 women and 21 children dead in the southern town of al-Majala, according to a parliamentary report. Only one of the dozens killed was identified as having strong Qaeda connections.
Misleading intelligence has also led to disastrous strikes with major political and economic consequences. An American drone strike in May 2010 killed Jabir al-Shabwani, a prominent sheik and the deputy governor of Marib Province. The strike had dire repercussions for Yemen’s economy. The slain sheik’s tribe attacked the country’s main pipeline in revenge. With 70 percent of the country’s budget dependent on oil exports, Yemen lost over $1 billion. This strike also erased years of progress and trust-building with tribes who considered it a betrayal given their role in fighting Al Qaeda in their areas.
Yemeni tribes are generally quite pragmatic and are by no means a default option for radical religious groups seeking a safe haven. However, the increasing civilian toll of drone strikes is turning the apathy of tribal factions into anger.
The strikes have created an opportunity for terrorist groups like Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula and Ansar al-Sharia to recruit fighters from tribes who have suffered casualties, especially in Yemen’s south, where mounting grievances since the 1994 civil war have driven a strong secessionist movement.


Unlike Al Qaeda in Iraq, A.Q.A.P. has worked on gaining the support of local communities by compromising on some of their strict religious laws and offering basic services, electricity and gas to villagers in the areas they control. Furthermore, Iran has seized this chance to gain more influence among the disgruntled population in Yemen’s south.
And the situation is quite likely to get worse now that Washington has broadened its rules of engagement to allow so-called signature strikes, when surveillance data suggest a terrorist leader may be nearby but the identities of all others targeted is not known. Such loose rules risk redefining “militants” as any military-age males seen in a strike zone.
Certainly, there may be short-term military gains from killing militant leaders in these strikes, but they are minuscule compared with the long-term damage the drone program is causing. A new generation of leaders is spontaneously emerging in furious retaliation to attacks on their territories and tribes.
This is why A.Q.A.P. is much stronger in Yemen today than it was a few years ago. In 2009, A.Q.A.P. had only a few hundred members and controlled no territory; today it has, along with Ansar al-Sharia, at least 1,000 members and controls substantial amounts of territory.
Yemenis are the ones who suffer the most from the presence of Al Qaeda, and getting rid of this plague is a priority for the majority of Yemen’s population. But there is no shortcut in dealing with it. Overlooking the real drivers of extremism and focusing solely on tackling their security symptoms with brutal force will make the situation worse.


Only a long-term approach based on building relations with local communities, dealing with the economic and social drivers of extremism, and cooperating with tribes and Yemen’s army will eradicate the threat of Islamic radicalism.
Unfortunately, liberal voices in the United States are largely ignoring, if not condoning, civilian deaths and extrajudicial killings in Yemen — including the assassination of three American citizens in September 2011, including a 16-year-old. During George W. Bush’s presidency, the rage would have been tremendous. But today there is little outcry, even though what is happening is in many ways an escalation of Mr. Bush’s policies.
Defenders of human rights must speak out. America’s counterterrorism policy here is not only making Yemen less safe by strengthening support for A.Q.A.P., but it could also ultimately endanger the United States and the entire world.

http://qz.com/569779/drone-strikes-...wards-america-that-will-last-for-generations/


If we want to curb terrorism in the United States, we must stop drone attacks in the Middle East.
1

It’s a sick myth that Islamic extremists attack the United States or other nations because they “hate our freedom.” They attack us for our foreign policy. In 2006, the United States National Intelligence Estimate reported that the US invasion and occupation of Iraq made the problem of terrorism worse by creating a new generation of terrorists. And since then, top ranking military and counter-terrorism authorities such as General Stanley McChrystal, General Mike Flynn and George W. Bush’s counter-terrorism czar Richard Clarke say that drone strikes in particular are creating more terrorists than they’re killing. If we want to stop terrorist attacks, we should stop the barbaric blind bombings that are fueling radicalization.

“The resentment created by American use of unmanned strikes … is much greater than the average American appreciates,” Gen. McChrystal, who led the US counter-insurgency strategy in Afghanistan, said in 2013. “They are hated on a visceral level, even by people who’ve never seen one or seen the effects of one.”


Gen. Flynn, who until recently was the head of the Defense Intelligence Agency and has become a harsh critic of President Obama’s strategy in the Middle East, has said, “When you drop a bomb from a drone … you are going to cause more damage than you are going to cause good.” Flynn, who has actually backs a more muscular military approach, doesn’t think it should include drones.

Clarke has said that when we use unmanned drones to drop bombs which, no matter how hard we try otherwise, inevitably kill innocent people:

[Y]ou cause enemies for the United States that will last for generations. All of these innocent people that you kill have brothers and sisters and tribe—tribal relations. Many of them were not opposed to the United States prior to some one of their friends or relatives being killed. And then, sometimes, they cross over, not only to being opposed to the United States, but by being willing to pick up arms and become a terrorist against the United States. So you may actually be creating terrorists, rather than eliminating them,
In fact, in the wake of the ISIL-linked terrorist attacks in Paris, four whistleblowers in the United States Air Force wrote an open letter to the Obama Administration calling for an end to drone strikes. The authors, all of whom had operational experience with drone strikes, wrote that such attacks “fueled the feelings of hatred that ignited terrorism and groups like Isis, while also serving as a fundamental recruitment tool.” They say that the killing of innocent civilians by American drones is one of most “devastating driving forces for terrorism and destabilization around the world.”


 
OK you stupid war mongering piece of shit?

You love your walls of texts, you act as if some asshole's opinion is proof of your irrational fear based fallacies.

These are the words of people who know MUCH MUCH more than you ever will.

They allude to the rise of ISIS as a result of drone use exactly as I said.
 
^ Jesus now you relying on spamming. Do I always have to do your research? from someplace in that pile of text....(below)

The inherently secret nature of the weapon creates a persistent feeling of fear in the areas where drones hover in the sky, and the hopelessness of communities that are on the receiving end of strikes causes severe backlash -- both in terms of anti-U.S. opinion and violence.
which is what I've already covered..
no long term persistent drones over populated areas, no signature strikes. which cuts down the fear, and the innocent targets.

The advantages of drone are still there - loitering over areas ( Like the Yemeni desert) where AQ meets, etc.
Get the intelligence ( no signature strikes) Then you can go after decent targets. Not wedding partys

Also the Pakistani offensive in Waziristan (Operation Zarb-e-Azb) has produced a lot of "blowback"
Land wars do that -as opposed to airstrikes, and in remote ( non-populated areas where the TTP-Taliban operate) they are ideal weapons -
but they need to be used as part of counter-terrorism strategies..
++
 
OK you stupid war mongering piece of shit?

You love your walls of texts, you act as if some asshole's opinion is proof of your irrational fear based fallacies.

These are the words of people who know MUCH MUCH more than you ever will.

They allude to the rise of ISIS as a result of drone use exactly as I said.

]Misleading intelligence has also led to disastrous strikes with major political and economic consequences.......
And the situation is quite likely to get worse now that Washington has broadened its rules of engagement to allow so-called signature strikes,
Obama's drone war a 'recruitment tool' for Isis, say US air force whistleblowers
In the wake of the Paris attacks, Obama has stuck firm to his determination to avoid sending large numbers of US troops to Syria, beyond the limited engagement of special forces. The natural, though unspoken, consequence of such a strategy is a deepening reliance on aerial attacks in which unmanned drones increasingly play a leading part.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...sis-recruitment-tool-air-force-whistleblowers
^
ridiculous..
ISIS in Syria has lost about 25% ( or more ) of it's territory because of airstrikes in combination with the Syrian Kurds/Assad/and also Russian airstrikes

where do you see this "alluding" to the rise of ISIS?? this??
 
^ Jesus now you relying on spamming. Do I always have to do your research? from someplace in that pile of text....(below)

which is what I've already covered..
no long term persistent drones over populated areas, no signature strikes. which cuts down the fear, and the innocent targets.

The advantages of drone are still there - loitering over areas ( Like the Yemeni desert) where AQ meets, etc.
Get the intelligence ( no signature strikes) Then you can go after decent targets. Not wedding partys

Also the Pakistani offensive in Waziristan (Operation Zarb-e-Azb) has produced a lot of "blowback"
Land wars do that -as opposed to airstrikes, and in remote ( non-populated areas where the TTP-Taliban operate) they are ideal weapons -
but they need to be used as part of counter-terrorism strategies..
++

LMFAO

When you do it it is proof, when I do it, it is spam?

YOU FUCKING HYPOCRITICAL PIECE OF SHIT.
Everyone from the USAF to Oxford University to the CIA to abundant retired generals agree with me, but no, you are right and the rest of the world is wrong.

You are simply not worth talking to.

You are a war monger plain and simple.

You are a an (apparently) unpaid volunteer for the Military Industrial Complex.

You have zero (0) credibility.

You defend the indefensible and then attempt to mock those who point out your lies and fallacies.

You make actual trolls look welcome.

By the way, really want to learn something? Look up pseudo-intellectual. That is what you are. Darla is right, idiots always think they are brilliant. You are the worst thing that could happen to humanity. You are sick, and have a diseased mind.

Lie to yourself all you want but your lies will not be tolerated here.
 
^ Jesus now you relying on spamming. Do I always have to do your research? from someplace in that pile of text....(below)

which is what I've already covered..
no long term persistent drones over populated areas, no signature strikes. which cuts down the fear, and the innocent targets.

The advantages of drone are still there - loitering over areas ( Like the Yemeni desert) where AQ meets, etc.
Get the intelligence ( no signature strikes) Then you can go after decent targets. Not wedding partys

Also the Pakistani offensive in Waziristan (Operation Zarb-e-Azb) has produced a lot of "blowback"
Land wars do that -as opposed to airstrikes, and in remote ( non-populated areas where the TTP-Taliban operate) they are ideal weapons -
but they need to be used as part of counter-terrorism strategies..
++
Right anaata you megalomaniac. If Obama would just do what you think he should everything would be fine.

:rofl:
 
LMFAO

When you do it it is proof, when I do it, it is spam?

YOU FUCKING HYPOCRITICAL PIECE OF SHIT.
Everyone from the USAF to Oxford University to the CIA to abundant retired generals agree with me, but no, you are right and the rest of the world is wrong.

You are simply not worth talking to.

You are a war monger plain and simple.

You are a an (apparently) unpaid volunteer for the Military Industrial Complex.

You have zero (0) credibility.

You defend the indefensible and then attempt to mock those who point out your lies and fallacies.

You make actual trolls look welcome.

By the way, really want to learn something? Look up pseudo-intellectual. That is what you are. Darla is right, idiots always think they are brilliant. You are the worst thing that could happen to humanity. You are sick, and have a diseased mind.

Lie to yourself all you want but your lies will not be tolerated here.
^frothing without a purpose..
I do not spam like you do, I rely on SOURCES to BOLSTER my ARGUMENT ( and carefully redact the germane parts)
without "walls of text"

If you any ability to discern thru that stuff, you'd see I had ALREADY ADDRESSED IT !
But you can't so you don't, and you resort to childish name calling..

It's like debating a 3rd grader with you...you are the poster child for ' a little knowledge is a dangerous thing'
 
^frothing without a purpose..
I do not spam like you do, I rely on SOURCES to BOLSTER my ARGUMENT ( and carefully redact the germane parts)
without "walls of text"

If you any ability to discern thru that stuff, you'd see I had ALREADY ADDRESSED IT !
But you can't so you don't, and you resort to childish name calling..

It's like debating a 3rd grader with you...you are the poster child for ' a little knowledge is a dangerous thing'

Seriously, buy a dictionary. You are a hypocrite of the first order.

FYI, you have hardly restrained yourself from fling ad homs in this thread, loser.

I didn't spam anything, I posted articles which bolster my argument. Fucking retard, what is good for anaata is good for Rune.
 
Seriously, buy a dictionary. You are a hypocrite of the first order.

FYI, you have hardly restrained yourself from fling ad homs in this thread, loser.

I didn't spam anything, I posted articles which bolster my argument. Fucking retard, what is good for anaata is good for Rune.
you posted walls of text that I had to redact to show your points..that was pathetic.
 
Seriously, I don't have original thoughts?
Sounds like a prosaic prick who is jealous of an actual thinker.
I like you IHA. You shame readily and easilly when you say something stupid and don't double down on it like your butt crack sniffing buddy USFREEDOM.

Darla
If you continue to use Rune's account, you run the risk of saying something that could get him banned; unless that's your goal, to begin with.
 
It is cute that they both decided to show their avatars again.

I also admire them for supporting a failed presidential candidate.

If you've known them as long as I have, you can start to pick up on nuances that pertain to one or the other and this is not Rune posting.
This is Darla using her account; because she can say what she wants, throw Rune under the bus, and appear to maintain her "purity".
It's not like she hasn't done it before.
 
you posted walls of text that I had to redact to show your points..that was pathetic.

Wrong idiot.
Articles, most not even complete, every one of them destroying your point.
Drones are not a good weapon, they have caused far more harm than good. Terrorist activity rises in DIRECT proportion to drone strikes. This fact cannot be refuted.
 
If you've known them as long as I have, you can start to pick up on nuances that pertain to one or the other and this is not Rune posting.
This is Darla using her account; because she can say what she wants, throw Rune under the bus, and appear to maintain her "purity".
It's not like she hasn't done it before.

Well that is true. I picked up on the different writing styles during werewolf. That is what clued me in that something was afoot. ;)
 
Wrong idiot.
Articles, most not even complete, every one of them destroying your point.
Drones are not a good weapon, they have caused far more harm than good. Terrorist activity rises in DIRECT proportion to drone strikes. This fact cannot be refuted.

So you are saying King Drone Obama is responsible for all of the new terrorists?
 
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