School Me Mainecoon

[Sir Evil]

so what now? what would be the best way to handle this f-up? with us supporting the shiites in gvt, while the shiite people in iraq side with hezbollah and iran, in the middle of a civil war with sunnis?

i mean, could this have gotten any more SCREWED UP than it did?

gees louise!

the shiites are killing alot of sunnis too maineman, from what i've been reading, the shiites are shedding their revenge upon the sunnis for holding them in captivity for so long under saddam....? it's pretty bad!!!

care

Tis a key question on the mind of many! Clearly nobody likes the current admins way of handling things so why not have everyone offer a solution to the problem, wehter it be more troops, less troops, pull out all together, or what have ya. Can't have it both ways with the should'nt have been there to begin with, fact is that we are there and no one has really offered up much other than criticism. Before anyone jumps to the conclusion that comment is directed to them, it's simply pointing out the current problem amongst the politicians!

 

[LadyT]

so what now? what would be the best way to handle this f-up? with us supporting the shiites in gvt, while the shiite people in iraq side with hezbollah and iran, in the middle of a civil war with sunnis?

i mean, could this have gotten any more SCREWED UP than it did?

gees louise!

the shiites are killing alot of sunnis too maineman, from what i've been reading, the shiites are shedding their revenge upon the sunnis for holding them in captivity for so long under saddam....? it's pretty bad!!!

care

slowly step away and hope no one notices?

 

[LadyT]

Tis a key question on the mind of many! Clearly nobody likes the current admins way of handling things so why not have everyone offer a solution to the problem, wehter it be more troops, less troops, pull out all together, or what have ya. Can't have it both ways with the should'nt have been there to begin with, fact is that we are there and no one has really offered up much other than criticism. Before anyone jumps to the conclusion that comment is directed to them, it's simply pointing out the current problem amongst the politicians!

I've been offering the same solution for about 3 years now......

"Pull out of Iraq"

 

[Sir Evil]

I've been offering the same solution for about 3 years now......

"Pull out of Iraq"

The eventual pullout is indeed the best overall solution, nobody wants to see it worse of than it already is. However pulling out now, would that really be the best thing in your opinion? As you stated above, jokingly Im sure, "leave now and hope nobody notices" happens to be a very big part of the problem. Thing is everyone would notice! The admin is too worried what type of backlash that would get, how weak it may make them look, and so on. We all saw the claimed victory by hizbollah, the same thing would occur, and terrorists, Iran, and Syria would be claiming a victory. Even worse then that they would wholeheartedly believe it too! Just palin can't have that or they would see themselves as world rulers.

 

[IHateGovernment]

Iraq will be fine without us. The insurgency will not be able to take over the country if we leave now. As far as sectarian violence we can't do much about that since they will probably start as soon as we leave regardless.

 

[IHateGovernment]

I encourage a partition of the country 3 nations.

 

[Sir Evil]

The insurgency will not be able to take over the country if we leave now.

Do you believe the insurgents sent across borders would just up and leave if we did? I have a hard time believing that, I think it might even increase for the single purpose of furthering Irans want to be the big player in the middle east.

 

[LadyT]

The eventual pullout is indeed the best overall solution, nobody wants to see it worse of than it already is. However pulling out now, would that really be the best thing in your opinion? As you stated above, jokingly Im sure, "leave now and hope nobody notices" happens to be a very big part of the problem. Thing is everyone would notice! The admin is too worried what type of backlash that would get, how weak it may make them look, and so on. We all saw the claimed victory by hizbollah, the same thing would occur, and terrorists, Iran, and Syria would be claiming a victory. Even worse then that they would wholeheartedly believe it too! Just palin can't have that or they would see themselves as world rulers.

I've been for a pull out for a long time, but its been an evolving plan. I think Bush have in addition to general elections put an initiative on the ballot that would get rid of US occupational forces in the country. Given that most of the people were against us being there it would have been a win-win: We don't look like we were occupiers, democracy would be working and the civil war that was inevitable would ensue sans the US military. We could still do that but I odn't know of any general elections coming up. The best option would be to pull out our uniformed forces and support them with special ops forces and with IT gathering from outside Iraq and redeploying a small number of troops on friendly bases. That would be my suggestion. But we need to face up to what's going on: its civil war and a uniformed US military presence isn't helping the situation, so if its not helping, we should get out.

 

[Sir Evil]

The best option would be to pull out our uniformed forces and support them with special ops forces and with IT gathering from outside Iraq and redeploying a small number of troops on friendly bases. That would be my suggestion. But we need to face up to what's going on: its civil war and a uniformed US military presence isn't helping the situation, so if its not helping, we should get out.

BAM! One of the better suggestions I have seen of late! I think it's a decent start anyway but what to do should the insurgency continue? civil war will take place regardless if the government & military there can't stand on it's own.

 

[IHateGovernment]

Do you believe the insurgents sent across borders would just up and leave if we did? I have a hard time believing that, I think it might even increase for the single purpose of furthering Irans want to be the big player in the middle east.

No the insurgency will not completely desolve. However it is more likely to shrink than grow. Many in the insurgency simply want to kill Americans not their fellow countrymen. They will have lost a primary motivator with our withdrawal. As for the remainder I believe the Iraqi army can hold them at bay at least. Yes there will continue to be bombings and the like but they won't take over the country. They're no Viet Cong.

As for Iran I don't think it is Iran's interests to subvert the interests of a shiitite dominated theocratic democracy in Iraq.

The insurgency is Sunni anyway. It isn't totally unlikely that without us there the Iranians might help Iraq destory the Sunni insurgency.

 

[LadyT]

I think it's a decent start anyway but what to do should the insurgency continue?

Offer up intel and deploy troops if its absolutely necessary to stabilize a situation and then get out, immediately.

To be honest I'd almost prefer if the redeployed troops were NATO, but I don't know what kinds of timeframe commitments they may or may not regarding being on stand by.

 

[Sir Evil]

As for Iran I don't think it is Iran's interests to subvert the interests of a shiitite dominated theocratic democracy in Iraq.

The insurgency is Sunni anyway. It isn't totally unlikely that without us there the Iranians might help Iraq destory the Sunni insurgency.

So you don't see Iran having any interest in extending power other than trying to kill out some of our troops? I figured it may be a key for them without our troops there, saddam no longer in charge, and the chance to extend their power of extemism.

Admittedly I have little knowledge of the different tribes intentions, coonie was schooling me on that one but I have yet to take it all in so I may very well see it in a whole other light.

 

[Sir Evil]

To be honest I'd almost prefer if the redeployed troops were NATO, but I don't know what kinds of timeframe commitments they may or may not regarding being on stand by.

Darn LadyT, ya got it going on now! Glad to see someone recognize that NATO would be more of a force as opposed to the UN. I could see NATO becoming more involved in this age if some could get the idea that the UN just can't handle these kind of issues.

 

[LadyT]

Darn LadyT, ya got it going on now! Glad to see someone recognize that NATO would be more of a force as opposed to the UN. I could see NATO becoming more involved in this age if some could get the idea that the UN just can't handle these kind of issues.

Thnx. Its refreshing to hear a con actually consider pulling out of Iraq.

 

[Sir Evil]

Thnx. Its refreshing to hear a con actually consider pulling out of Iraq.

LOL, now what gave you the impression that I was a "con" as you would put it, is that the automatic for the opposing views?

Pulling the troops is something I see as a need but when, is a whole other animal! I would'nt say it's a good idea to put a timetable on it, nor just pull em' out all together without a planB ready to go.

I like what you have offered thus far in ideas, it's more than many have offered. With that said I wanna make a little assumption of my own, you lean left but not far left, you hate everything Bush is about, and you could neve see eye to eye with someone who supports him. Would that be a fair assesment?

 

[LadyT]

LOL, now what gave you the impression that I was a "con" as you would put it, is that the automatic for the opposing views?

Pulling the troops is something I see as a need but when, is a whole other animal! I would'nt say it's a good idea to put a timetable on it, nor just pull em' out all together without a planB ready to go.

I like what you have offered thus far in ideas, it's more than many have offered. With that said I wanna make a little assumption of my own, you lean left but not far left, you hate everything Bush is about, and you could neve see eye to eye with someone who supports him. Would that be a fair assesment?

No. I give Bush credit when he does something right. Offhand I think there may have been two things that I thought were smart.

One was the funds he set aside for bird flu preparedness. The details are fuzzy, but I can remember thinking, "oh look he's thinking ahead and he has our welfare in mind".

OH, and the other was the voter's act he kept recently.

 

[Sir Evil]

No. I give Bush credit when he does something right. Offhand I think there may have been two things that I thought were smart.

One was the funds he set aside for bird flu preparedness. The details are fuzzy, but I can remember thinking, "oh look he's thinking ahead and he has our welfare in mind".

OH, and the other was the voter's act he kept recently.

I could go along with that, and agree. Is that the "con" coming out of you a bit?
I' just trying to figure the mindset of many here, I have'nt really declared anything other than opinions but somehow many tend to classify right away, to me that is a biggie of a problem right now in the political world. Ya just palin gotta be on a declared side, and be against the opposing side in order to get anything done. Hows about one side of opposing views figuring out the grand scheme during critical times and leaving the partisan ways along the side until a better time?

 

[LadyT]

I could go along with that, and agree. Is that the "con" coming out of you a bit?
I' just trying to figure the mindset of many here, I have'nt really declared anything other than opinions but somehow many tend to classify right away, to me that is a biggie of a problem right now in the political world. Ya just palin gotta be on a declared side, and be against the opposing side in order to get anything done. Hows about one side of opposing views figuring out the grand scheme during critical times and leaving the partisan ways along the side until a better time?

Well, you are correct. You don't even know it, but you've actually busted me on being hypocritical. I've often shun labels and over generalizing people and here I've done it to you. I apologize.

 

[IHateGovernment]

So you don't see Iran having any interest in extending power other than trying to kill out some of our troops? I figured it may be a key for them without our troops there, saddam no longer in charge, and the chance to extend their power of extemism.

Admittedly I have little knowledge of the different tribes intentions, coonie was schooling me on that one but I have yet to take it all in so I may very well see it in a whole other light.

I'm sure Iran intends to exert great control in that area and that is one thing we cannot really prevent that either unless we stay indefinitely. It is debatable if Iranian influence in Iraq is that detrimental to us anyway.

 

[Sir Evil]

Well, you are correct. You don't even know it, but you've actually busted me on being hypocritical. I've often shun labels and over generalizing people and here I've done it to you. I apologize.

No apology needed, nobody is the winner at the end of the day as it is all about opinion But we all stand to be the losers if the problems are'nt recognized before it's too late. Take a look around this board for instance, we have the "kerry slamming lieberman" thing, fighting amonsgst their own and then conservs crossing lines to throw a pat on the back in favor of lieberman. We have articles criticizing hilary for her original vote for war, the McCain side of things, and it just goes on, and on... So long as they wish to fight amongst themselves, cross lines in support to gain a vote or two along the way the bigger picture is lost.

Step back and look at it from a outsiders view, one of the biggest acts of terrorism reaked havoc on the american people, and that is simply the dissention created by it all. Who do you think is laughing at the end of the day? That being a look without taking sides needs to be something that we all need to see if we wanna declare any kind of victory when it's over!