Suspended for not standing for pledge!

Jarod

Jarod

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http://www.startribune.com/nation/18800444.html

Three small-town eighth-graders in Minnesota were suspended by their principal for not standing Thursday morning for the Pledge of Allegiance, violating a district policy that the principal now says may soon be reworded to protect free speech rights.

"My son wasn't being defiant against America," said Kim Dahl, mother of one of the students, Brandt, who attends Dilworth-Glyndon-Felton Junior High School in northwestern Minnesota.

Brandt told the Forum newspaper in Fargo that Thursday's one-day in-school suspension, "was kind of dumb because I didn't do anything wrong. It should be the people's choice."

Is this cool? Seems very uncool to me! Its a small issue, but when the pledge requires acknoldgement of God, thats not freedom, in my book.

You are required to go to school.
At school you required to reconise and acknoledge and give respect to the pledge of alegence.
The pledge of alegence acknoledges that the nation is "under God"~!
 
Dungheap said:
It's BS. If the kid doesn't want to stand for the pledge he shouldn't have to. Fucking fascists.
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yeah, and if the kid doesn't want to sit down in class and pay attention, he shouldn't have to do that either. Fuck authority!!! Let the kids do whatever the hell they please!
 
Dungheap said:
It's BS. If the kid doesn't want to stand for the pledge he shouldn't have to. Fucking fascists.
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Rubbish. Just as if you would wear a yarmulke if you went to the Western Wall, or any other sign of respect for the people you are among, it is not unrealistic or fascist to ask the kid to show respect for others.
 
Superfreak said:
yeah, and if the kid doesn't want to sit down in class and pay attention, he shouldn't have to do that either. Fuck authority!!! Let the kids do whatever the hell they please!
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Apparently you want to be ridiculous. If you want to play that game, let's assume the school required children to, I don't know, recite a anti-Bush pledge while pledging their allegiance to Hugo Chavez and a Venezuelan flag.

Would it be OK for a child to be insubordinate in that context?

We're not talking about a kid being disruptive during classroom instruction. We're talking about a kid that doesn't want to pledge allegiance to the flag, something that is well within the realm of first amendment rights. Something you would recognize if you read the article.

And the yarmulke at the Western Wall thing is just bizarre.
 
Dungheap said:
Apparently you want to be ridiculous. If you want to play that game, let's assume the school required children to, I don't know, recite a anti-Bush pledge while pledging their allegiance to Hugo Chavez and a Venezuelan flag.

Would it be OK for a child to be insubordinate in that context?

We're not talking about a kid being disruptive during classroom instruction. We're talking about a kid that doesn't want to pledge allegiance to the flag, something that is well within the realm of first amendment rights. Something you would recognize if you read the article.

And the yarmulke at the Western Wall thing is just bizarre.
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1) Standing is NOT pledging allegiance to the flag.

2) No, requiring someone to recite any pledge to anything/anyone is against freedom of speech. Asking them to stand is not.
 
Dungheap said:
Apparently you want to be ridiculous. If you want to play that game, let's assume the school required children to, I don't know, recite a anti-Bush pledge while pledging their allegiance to Hugo Chavez and a Venezuelan flag.

Would it be OK for a child to be insubordinate in that context?

We're not talking about a kid being disruptive during classroom instruction. We're talking about a kid that doesn't want to pledge allegiance to the flag, something that is well within the realm of first amendment rights. Something you would recognize if you read the article.

And the yarmulke at the Western Wall thing is just bizarre.
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Bizarre is not understanding that you show respect to other people. If that entails standing up when they play, say, the Russian Anthem while you are in Russia, even if you don't like their government. Then you stand.

This is the same thing. Only it is in your own nation. You simply stand up and show respect for the other people. You don't "pledge" yourself, it doesn't mean you are owned. Just be respectful. It is part of what we are supposed to be teaching kids.
 
It’s interesting how this falls down ideological lines. Let’s face it, cons like to be told what to do, and become dependent on being told what to do. Conform or be cast out, that’s their motto.

Forcing kids to stand and pressuring them to recite the pledge of allegiance is one of the early steps taken to foster fear of authority and conforming to get along in the American mind.
 
Damocles said:
Bizarre is not understanding that you show respect to other people. If that entails standing up when they play, say, the Russian Anthem while you are in Russia, even if you don't like their government. Then you stand.

This is the same thing. Only it is in your own nation. You simply stand up and show respect for the other people. You don't "pledge" yourself, it doesn't mean you are owned. Just be respectful. It is part of what we are supposed to be teaching kids.
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What a steaming pile of horseshit. Sure, it would be nice if the kid would stand and be "respectful" towards the United States. But he doesn't want to. Why should he be forced to do so?
 
Damocles said:
Rubbish.

Standing isn't patriotism. This is projection. Your false outrage is showing.
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You said they "requested" him to stand, I said they demanded and ordered him to stand.

You disagree?

If he's not ordered to stand to feign patriotism .. why is he ordered to stand at the pledge?

Your right-wing is showing.
 
Damocles said:
Rubbish.

Standing isn't patriotism. This is projection. Your false outrage is showing.
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Coming from the guy that equates standing with showing respect for the country. Maybe the kids thinks the country, as symbolized by the flag, isn't worthy of his respect. Why should he be punished for expressing that sentiment?
 
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