The bible

Guille said:
And this is why you can't connect with everyone on this topic. Is it the word of God? Judging by what you just posted I'd say you think No. And that's your problem, if you want a serious conversation on the Bible you just ruled out all of the people who do really believe it's the Word of God.
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His only interest in discussing the Bible is to try to prove it False.
 
Into the Night said:
It is not possible to prove the Bible True or False, just as it is not possible to prove whether any god or gods exist or not.
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Your point originally wasn't about "The Bible" being true or false, you were talking about history...which can be proven true or false. I'm talking about the Word of God, something you weren't talking about when discussing The Bible.
 
Into the Night said:
It is not possible to prove the Bible True or False, just as it is not possible to prove whether any god or gods exist or not.
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In the realm of science with a Christian Nation religion of Islam human reproduction medical pseudoscience of "man is God" when it comes to Federal Lynching enforcement in Christiananality pedophilia as a sociopsychopathilogical mores norm for survival of the fittest fascists Peter Principle pyramid scheme propaganda certainly leaves true or false as a statistical improbability in perpetuating Islamidiotocracy Mohammed pedophilia cross conditioning of the masses.
 
ZenMode said:
The Japanese surrendered and, as a result, they stopped fighting. What does it mean to say sin was defeated but still exists? Does it no longer matter? Does it no longer have an impact on one's chances of receiving salvation? Do Christians no longer have to ask for forgiveness for their sins?
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ironically, it also means surrender.....to stop fighting and accept God's offer of grace.....and yes, asking for forgiveness........gosh, all of a sudden I love this thread......
 
ZenMode said:
That was the explanation, after the fact, for why Jesus died, but absolutely nothing changed as far as sin is concerned. Sin still exists. Christians still sin, at a higher rate now than ever if you ask some people. Original sin was unchanged and Christians remained captive to it.
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du'h......people are human......by the way your depiction of "after the fact" ignores that it is announced frequently in the OT starting with Genesis 3........
 
Guille said:
Your point originally wasn't about "The Bible" being true or false, you were talking about history...which can be proven true or false. I'm talking about the Word of God, something you weren't talking about when discussing The Bible.
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Same thing applies. History is not a proof, because it is not possible to prove any unobserved event ever took place or not.
The Word of God is the prophecies and lessons taught in the Bible and other sources (including personal inspiration). It is not possible to prove that God exists or not.
 
ZenMode said:
That was the explanation, after the fact, for why Jesus died, but absolutely nothing changed as far as sin is concerned. Sin still exists. Christians still sin, at a higher rate now than ever if you ask some people. Original sin was unchanged and Christians remained captive to it.
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Incorrect but you can go with that if you like.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
ironically, it also means surrender.....to stop fighting and accept God's offer of grace.....and yes, asking for forgiveness........gosh, all of a sudden I love this thread......
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Offer of grace? Historically speaking, Jesus died for a number of reason related to the perception that he was a threat to state leaders. Where did Jesus say he died for our sins?
 
ZenMode said:
Offer of grace? Historically speaking, Jesus died for a number of reason related to the perception that he was a threat to state leaders. Where did Jesus say he died for our sins?
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if I tell you are you going to one of those atheists that complain using the bible is just circular reasoning?......

if not, John 10
10 “Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2 The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5 But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.” 6 Jesus used this figure of speech, but the Pharisees did not understand what he was telling them.

7 Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. 9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[a] They will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12 The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. 13 The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

14 “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

19 The Jews who heard these words were again divided. 20 Many of them said, “He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen to him?”

21 But others said, “These are not the sayings of a man possessed by a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?”

Further Conflict Over Jesus’ Claims
22 Then came the Festival of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”

25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

40 Then Jesus went back across the Jordan to the place where John had been baptizing in the early days. There he stayed, 41 and many people came to him. They said, “Though John never performed a sign, all that John said about this man was true.” 42 And in that place many believed in Jesus.
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