The bible

PostmodernProphet said:
it was accepted by Christians.......it just wasn't accepted by the heretics......
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If it was totally obvious and totally crystal clear from the body of scripture that Jesus was both fully God and fully human, that he was coequal and coeternal with God, there never would have been a need for an Ecumenical council at Niccea in the fourth century.
 
Frank Apisa said:
You are too fucking stupid to argue with.

I did not restate your opinion as mine.

I'd ask you to stop being an idiot, but I recognize that you cannot do that.
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Frankie, your problem is you four-putt too much. And you're stupid too so there's that. None of that changes the fact you lectured me about faith when faith is what I brought up. I would tell you to stop being stupid but what's the point? You're very close to dead and you never got close to relevant any time in your life.
 
Frank Apisa said:
You asked, "...what about faith."

On the question of whether there are gods or not, a "belief" is nothing but a blind guess. And "faith" is merely the insistence that the blind guess is correct.

Think about it for a while before you shoot off your mouth with a reply.
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Thanks for making my point dumbass. Did you really not know what I was saying?
 
Cypress said:
If it was totally obvious and totally crystal clear from the body of scripture that Jesus was both fully God and fully human, that he was coequal and coeternal with God, there never would have been a need for an Ecumenical council at Niccea in the fourth century.
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and if God had chosen to force everyone to believe in him, there would have been no need for faith........or free will, or sin, or salvation.......

however, I believe what we are discussing is what the gospels say about the divinity of Jesus......which is obvious to all Christians and less obvious to the heretics chucked out of the Christian church for denying it.......
 
Defender of Honor said:
You're an atheist, you know nothing about Faith
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Have a coworker who recently labeled me as an atheist & used to have faith in "one nation under God with equal justice under law"; but since the only God they seem to accept is little more than Islam human reproduction medical pseudoscience in order to perpetuate reinforcement of Islam Mohammed pedophilia as with 9/11 for Christiananality pedophilia economics celebration of "man is God".
 
Guille said:
Frankie, your problem is you four-putt too much. And you're stupid too so there's that. None of that changes the fact you lectured me about faith when faith is what I brought up. I would tell you to stop being stupid but what's the point? You're very close to dead and you never got close to relevant any time in your life.
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You are as much an asshole as that avatar of yours.

And you like to advertise that you are.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
and if God had chosen to force everyone to believe in him, there would have been no need for faith........or free will, or sin, or salvation.......

however, I believe what we are discussing is what the gospels say about the divinity of Jesus......which is obvious to all Christians and less obvious to the heretics chucked out of the Christian church for denying it.......
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Cypress is correct, though.

The history of early Christianity has a LOT of discussion of the "homoiosiousness" of Christ with God. There were MANY different subsects of early Christianity with had various levels of connection. This is simple fact.

Your claims that all Christians knew thus and so is ONLY because of hundreds of years of fighting heterodoxy within the early church and forging a consistent faith.

As Cypress points out: that is why they had the COuncil of Nicaea.

Honestly you should read some history of Christianity.
 
Perry Phimosis said:
Cypress is correct, though. .
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no he's not.....the Christians knew what they believed.....from time to time heresy arose and it was kicked out......because it wasn't what Christians believed.....

getting chucked out of the Christian church for what you said, doesn't make what you said a Christian belief.......logically, it underscores the fact it wasn't.......

I know that because I've not only read the history of Christianity, but I apparently understand it a lot better than you and Cypress........just sayin'........
 
PostmodernProphet said:
no he's not
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HE IS RIGHT.

Geez, dude, even a MODEST cursory glance of early CHurch history will tell you.

There were Christians who believed Christ was just a man, some who believed he was a "demi-urge" or sub-god, there were those who felt he was separate from God and some who thought he was co-equal.

Even Erasmus writing centuries and centuries later initially left out the Johannine Comma which ESTABLISHES the Trinity because he couldn't find it in some of the early greek manuscripts he was working off of.



.....the Christians knew what they believed.....from time to time heresy arose and it was kicked out......because it wasn't what Christians believed....
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Your view of church history is lacking. The church COALESED out of a many strings of thought and fights and councils over hundreds and hundreds of years.

There were honest believing Christians who had dramatically different views of Christ than you have and they were the church.

I know that because I've not only read the history of Christianity, but I apparently understand it a lot better than you and Cypress........just sayin'........
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You clearly DO NOT. Cypress has actually talked knowledgeably about it. You haven't said ONE THING that indicated any knowledge of Church History. NOT ONE.
 
Perry Phimosis said:
Your view of church history is lacking. The church COALESED out of a many strings of thought and fights and councils over hundreds and hundreds of years.

There were honest believing Christians who had dramatically different views of Christ than you have and they were the church.
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it is incredibly stupid to try to define Christianity to include the beliefs of the very people they threw out because of what they believed........

would you say Stalin agreed with Lenin about the things he was killed for saying?........was Socrates poisoned because the Greeks agreed with what he was teaching?............you are the one lacking an understanding of history, not me......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
and if God had chosen to force everyone to believe in him, there would have been no need for faith........or free will, or sin, or salvation.......

however, I believe what we are discussing is what the gospels say about the divinity of Jesus......which is obvious to all Christians and less obvious to the heretics chucked out of the Christian church for denying it.......
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Obviously, proto-orthodoxy managed to suppress the other Christian sects.

You live two thousand years after Jesus, and all you can know about his intentions and the activities and events of his life are strictly in the realm of speculation and conjecture.

Even the ecumenical council of Niccea met three centuries after Jesus' execution, and couldn't have been directly privy to his nature and intentions.

The people who lived within one to three generations of Jesus can be presumed to have a better grasp on the events surrounding his life, and it is clear from the historical record there was no widespread agreement about how to interpret the life of Jesus in the first centuries of Christianity.

Cypress said:
The Ebionite Christians thought Jesus was fully human.

The Marcionite Christians thought Jesus was fully God and zero percent human.

The Gnostic Christians thought there were two Gods.

The Nestorian Christians emphasized the humanity of Jesus over his divinity.

The proto-Orthodox thought Jesus was both fully God and fully human, and coeternal and coequal with God.


If the canon as crystal clear as you claim, there never would have been these different branches of early Christianity.
.
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The Bible is just mythology. Nothing more, nothing less. Organized religion is the greatest and most evil scam ever perpetrated on man.
 
Cypress said:
Obviously, proto-orthodoxy managed to suppress the other Christian sects.
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dude.....if you've been thrown out of the Christian church you aren't "another Christian sect"........that's axiomatic.....

as well it should be obvious that if you deny the divinity of Jesus it's not logical to call yourself "Christ"ian, since the Christ IS divine by definition.....settle for Jesonian and stop pretending you are something you aren't......
 
Concart said:
The Bible is just mythology. Nothing more, nothing less. Organized religion is the greatest and most evil scam ever perpetrated on man.
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My two cents:

There haven't been devastating religious wars or openly violent inquisitions in western Christianity in 500 years. Obviously, bad christians did bad things in the intervening years.

In the last five centuries, I would peg nationalism, colonialism, fascism, communism, capitalism as the main sources of mass death and human suffering.

Modern Conservative Christian fundamentalists can and do represent a threat to civil rights and pluralism.
 
Concart said:
The Bible is just mythology. Nothing more, nothing less. Organized religion is the greatest and most evil scam ever perpetrated on man.
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Agreed but there’s some very useful philosophy int the Scriptures. E.g.:

God himself will kill tens of thousands if it pleases him: 1st Samuel 6:19 in the King James Version: “And he smote the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men (50,070)”.

Perversity and human trafficking condoned: "Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse." (1 Peter 2:18)

Sex slavery condoned: "When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again."
Exodus 21: 7-8

There’s lots more examples but this is great stuff! :)
 
PostmodernProphet said:
well there you have it then.......the discussion is now moot, religion no longer exists and we can all go home......
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My “religion” is Taoism. although It’s not a religion for me. I have none.
But if worshiping the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy works for whoever, I’m all for it (for that person).
 
Cypress said:
My two cents:

There haven't been devastating religious wars or openly violent inquisitions in western Christianity in 500 years. Obviously, bad christians did bad things in the intervening years.

In the last five centuries, I would peg nationalism, colonialism, fascism, communism, capitalism as the main sources of mass death and human suffering.

Modern Conservative Christian fundamentalists can and do represent a threat to civil rights and pluralism.
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Did you forget Northern Ireland? You are free to believe as you choose, but to deny the absolute devastation of organized religion you have to be willfully ignorant. Most nationalism is deeply rooted in religion.
 
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