The bible

Defender of Honor said:
That's the view of a rational mind.But it's an assumption.
The Holy Spirit is what gives true believers Faith.
But nonbelievers can't see that so like yourself assume it's Blind Faith.
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YEah....the people who blindly guess there is at least one god...are willing to say their blind guess HAS TO BE CORRECT.

Those of us who use reason suggest we do not know.

The people who blindly guess and then insist that their blind guess has to be correct...

...are not being rational.
 
Defender of Honor said:
That's the very argument I had with a Priest when I got married! The Faith vs Blind Faith debate.
That ended with an Epiphany of the Holy Spirit
Nov 1 1975
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I do not know what that is supposed to mean, DoH, but...

...anyone who says "At least one god exists" or "No gods exist"...is making a blind guess about the issue.

Anyone who invokes "faith" in their blind guess...is just insisting that their blind guesses are infallible.

I'd rather stick with reason and the truth: I do not know.

I suspect we'd all be better off if everyone did that.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
lol....do you think they didn't believe he was divine before Nicaea?
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You seem to only thrive when you can oversimplify a point.

Before Nicaea there were a wide variety of ways in which different Christian churches saw Jesus in relation to God.

Some saw him as a DIVINE BEING but not the same as God. Some saw him as a lesser-god type. Some saw him as only an inspired fully human man.


........the heretics denied it and were chucked
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But they weren't heretics until one group decided that anyone who disagreed with THEM was going to be chucked out of the church. That process of developing and agreeing on what was the actual faith took CENTURIES.


.......those who chucked them didn't just start believing it then.....they always had......
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Not necessarily true. But it would require you to read a LOT more Church documents throughout it's history.

While I understand you are not a Catholic (that's the "wrong type of Christianity") but if you were to read through say "The Catholic Encyclopedia" from the 1920's (HERE) you can learn a LOT more about the various councils, their history and the various creeds that were established over centuries which ultimately became standard Christianity.

Then you can read up on the history of Protestantism and how it attempted to break a lot of that in the 17th century. Then you can read up on how YOUR SECT was founded probably some time in the 1800's in the US (I am guessing here because I don't know what sect you are a member of).

Just know that what YOU think is "eternal truth" wasn't really arrived at 2022 years ago. It took centuries and centuries to come to you in its current form.
 
Frank Apisa said:
YEah....the people who blindly guess there is at least one god...are willing to say their blind guess HAS TO BE CORRECT.

Those of us who use reason suggest we do not know.

The people who blindly guess and then insist that their blind guess has to be correct...

...are not being rational.
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That applies to Christians who never have a Epiphany but just go to the church their parents went to.
Doesn't apply to Christians who have the Holy Spirit
 
Frank Apisa said:
I do not know what that is supposed to mean, DoH, but...

...anyone who says "At least one god exists" or "No gods exist"...is making a blind guess about the issue.

Anyone who invokes "faith" in their blind guess...is just insisting that their blind guesses are infallible.

I'd rather stick with reason and the truth: I do not know.

I suspect we'd all be better off if everyone did that.
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There's a difference between Faith thru the Holy Spirit and
Blind Faith based on assumption
 
Perry Phimosis said:
You seem to only thrive when you can oversimplify a point.

Before Nicaea there were a wide variety of ways in which different Christian churches saw Jesus in relation to God.

Some saw him as a DIVINE BEING but not the same as God. Some saw him as a lesser-god type. Some saw him as only an inspired fully human man.




But they weren't heretics until one group decided that anyone who disagreed with THEM was going to be chucked out of the church. That process of developing and agreeing on what was the actual faith took CENTURIES.




Not necessarily true. But it would require you to read a LOT more Church documents throughout it's history.

While I understand you are not a Catholic (that's the "wrong type of Christianity") but if you were to read through say "The Catholic Encyclopedia" from the 1920's (HERE) you can learn a LOT more about the various councils, their history and the various creeds that were established over centuries which ultimately became standard Christianity.

Then you can read up on the history of Protestantism and how it attempted to break a lot of that in the 17th century. Then you can read up on how YOUR SECT was founded probably some time in the 1800's in the US (I am guessing here because I don't know what sect you are a member of).

Just know that what YOU think is "eternal truth" wasn't really arrived at 2022 years ago. It took centuries and centuries to come to you in its current form.
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Jesus warned "Many come in my name, but they aren't mine" .
That's why Christinity is hard to understand with endless denominations.
Organized religion makes more atheists than they bring to Christ.
 
Defender of Honor said:
There's a difference between Faith thru the Holy Spirit and
Blind Faith based on assumption
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The major "difference" is delusion, DoH. I'm not trying to bust your balls here. I am merely pointing out that claiming divine intervention does not work in these discussions. You may think that you have had an epiphany...and that you have gained insights via the Holy Spirit...

...BUT I defy you to show that you are not deluding yourself.

It cannot be done.
 
Defender of Honor said:
Jesus warned "Many come in my name, but they aren't mine" .
That's why Christinity is hard to understand with endless denominations.
Organized religion makes more atheists than they bring to Christ.
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So which version of Christianity do YOU adhere to? What is your sect called?

Or are you a Church of only one person and your beliefs are wholly sui generis?
 
Frank Apisa said:
It applies to everyone. Even the ones who suppose they have had an epiphany...and have the Holy Spirit.
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That sounds good to you! I was just like you wasn't religious ,never went to church.
Then I was chosen by the Holy Spirit for an epiphany.
I wasn't looking for God,God came looking for me!
"Many are called few are Chosen".
 
Defender of Honor said:
That sounds good to you! I was just like you wasn't religious ,never went to church.
Then I was chosen by the Holy Spirit for an epiphany.
I wasn't looking for God,God came looking for me!
"Many are called few are Chosen".
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There was a period of my life when I went to church EVERY DAY. I decided that I wanted to become a priest. (I decided the vocation was not for me...and, thankfully, gave up the idea.)

You claim to have been chosen by the Holy Spirit for an epiphany.

How do you know you are not deluding yourself?

Why does you god not choose everyone?

Not enough room in Heaven?

Why?
 
Frank Apisa said:
The major "difference" is delusion, DoH. I'm not trying to bust your balls here. I am merely pointing out that claiming divine intervention does not work in these discussions. You may think that you have had an epiphany...and that you have gained insights via the Holy Spirit...

...BUT I defy you to show that you are not deluding yourself.

It cannot be done.
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Normal reaction from a nonbeliever.
 
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