The bible

Apollyon 2023 said:
God? You're an atheist?
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What difference does that make?

He brings up an interesting question...one that I have asked on many occasions. AND I AM NOT AN ATHEIST.

A sin is nothing more than something that a human does that offends the GOD. If the GOD wants to forgive those "sins"...all the GOD has to do is say, "I forgive those sins." But apparently the god of the Bible would not forgive those sins unless humans show their love for him by torturing and killing his son.

WTF?
 
Frank Apisa said:
What difference does that make?

He brings up an interesting question...one that I have asked on many occasions. AND I AM NOT AN ATHEIST.

A sin is nothing more than something that a human does that offends the GOD. If the GOD wants to forgive those "sins"...all the GOD has to do is say, "I forgive those sins." But apparently the god of the Bible would not forgive those sins unless humans show their love for him by torturing and killing his son.

WTF?
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Exodus 29:16 "And you shall kill the ram, and you shall take its blood and sprinkle it all around the altar. Then you shall cut the ram in pieces, wash its entrails and its legs, and put them with its pieces and with its head. And you shall burn the whole ram on the altar It is a burnt offering to the Lord; it is a sweet aroma, an offering made by fire to the Lord. "

The God of the OT was pretty clear that killing things to honor Him was a good thing. He liked it. But the NT and the "New Covenant" allowed one last big sacrifice. That's when God turned himself into himself except on earth and then arranged to have his creations murder him in a most gruesome fashion thereby atoning God's creation to Himself.

We don't need to worry about any more sacrifices since Jesus paid the ultimate price. But they were a very useful tool for God to run the world.
 
Perry Phimosis said:
How so?
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Because there is a third option.

The Euthyphro Dilemma attempts to posit the following dilemma:
[1] A thing is good because God says it is. --- This is an issue because God could potentially say that ANYTHING is good, including murder/rape/etc... IOW, morality would be based on the arbitrary whim of God.
[2] God is simply reporting that something is good. --- This is an issue because God would no longer be the standard of morality.

However, there is a third option, and that option is that God's nature itself is the objective moral standard. When God says that something is good, he bases that declaration on his own perfect nature. This means that goodness is not arbitrary (solves issue #1) and that his declarations of goodness are always true (solves issue #2).

If something is "good", then something functions according to its designed purpose. God is the creator/designer, thus God is the standard for the "goodness" of his creation. Anything that stands in the way of (or otherwise defiles) his intended purposes for his creation is thus "bad/evil".
 
gfm7175 said:
Because there is a third option.

The Euthyphro Dilemma attempts to posit the following dilemma:
[1] A thing is good because God says it is. --- This is an issue because God could potentially say that ANYTHING is good, including murder/rape/etc... IOW, morality would be based on the arbitrary whim of God.
[2] God is simply reporting that something is good. --- This is an issue because God would no longer be the standard of morality.

However, there is a third option, and that option is that God's nature itself is the objective moral standard.
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FIrst off: you misstate the dilemma. The second horn of the dilemma is that God is good by definition so all things he does are good. The problem with this horn of the dilemma is that it pre-supposes that SOMETHING existed before and independent of God. What defines what GOOD is then? Because it isn't God per se.
 
Perry Phimosis said:
FIrst off: you misstate the dilemma. The second horn of the dilemma is that God is good by definition so all things he does are good. The problem with this horn of the dilemma is that it pre-supposes that SOMETHING existed before and independent of God. What defines what GOOD is then? Because it isn't God per se.
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Another problem I see is the "When god says..." problem.

Who here has ever heard any god say anything.

Perhaps when people like gfm say "When god says..." they mean "When someone says that a god said..."

Jeez, I dunno. Pretty flimsy stuff there.
 
Frank Apisa said:
Another problem I see is the "When god says..." problem.

Who here has ever heard any god say anything.

Perhaps when people like gfm say "When god says..." they mean "When someone says that a god said..."

Jeez, I dunno. Pretty flimsy stuff there.
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God speaks to true believers through the Holy Spirit.
It's how Christianity has survived.
 
Apollyon 2023 said:
God speaks to true believers through the Holy Spirit.
It's how Christianity has survived.
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yeah_sure_jon_hamm.gif
 
Perry Phimosis said:
Exodus 29:16 "And you shall kill the ram, and you shall take its blood and sprinkle it all around the altar. Then you shall cut the ram in pieces, wash its entrails and its legs, and put them with its pieces and with its head. And you shall burn the whole ram on the altar It is a burnt offering to the Lord; it is a sweet aroma, an offering made by fire to the Lord. "

The God of the OT was pretty clear that killing things to honor Him was a good thing. He liked it. But the NT and the "New Covenant" allowed one last big sacrifice. That's when God turned himself into himself except on earth and then arranged to have his creations murder him in a most gruesome fashion thereby atoning God's creation to Himself.

We don't need to worry about any more sacrifices since Jesus paid the ultimate price. But they were a very useful tool for God to run the world.
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they were right......the devil CAN quote scripture......
 
Frank Apisa said:
Another problem I see is the "When god says..." problem.

Who here has ever heard any god say anything.

Perhaps when people like gfm say "When god says..." they mean "When someone says that a god said..."

Jeez, I dunno. Pretty flimsy stuff there.
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every one who's read the Word......
 
Frank Apisa said:
A sin is nothing more than something that a human does that offends the GOD.
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"nothing more"?......what could be worse than disobeying he who created the universe?.......

If the GOD wants to forgive those "sins"...all the GOD has to do is say, "I forgive those sins." But apparently the god of the Bible would not forgive those sins unless humans show their love for him by torturing and killing his son.
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if God is the epitome of justice and righteousness how would he just ignore disobedience........you're trying to degrade him by turning him into a demmycrat......
 
Perry Phimosis said:
FIrst off: you misstate the dilemma. The second horn of the dilemma is that God is good by definition so all things he does are good. The problem with this horn of the dilemma is that it pre-supposes that SOMETHING existed before and independent of God. What defines what GOOD is then? Because it isn't God per se.
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I'm not sure where you're getting that from because Christians tend to believe that God has always and will always exist (that he is eternal). Nothing is "before God".
 
Apollyon 2023 said:
Translation Spinoza is your God,unless you can be specific who Spinoza's God is,what's his name where does he live?
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I believe the universal spirit, the Dao, God, Brahman or wherever you want to call it doesn't live in a house or a cloud, doesn't have a first name like Larry or Ethel, doesn't have a white robe or a long beard.

Whatever this higher truth is, it certainly didn't have a conversation with you convincing you to be an avenging Angel of death.
 
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