The bullet counters

Little-Acorn

New member
As I understand it, most police departments have as their policy, the idea that you only use your weapon if your life is in danger, or the life of another innocent person is in danger. And once you shoot, you then keep shooting until the threat is completely removed.

People who scream over the idea that cops fired 41 times at a guy, don't seem to know this. Thankfully, Sowell does, and writes clearly about it.

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http://www.townhall.com/columnists/...8/the_bullet_counters?page=full&comments=true

The Bullet Counters

by Thomas Sowell
Wednesday, May 28, 2008

"Killing an Unarmed Man." That is how the front-page headline in the New York Times characterized an incident in which a man tried to run over a policeman with his car and was shot by three policemen on the scene, including his intended victim.

An automobile is a deadly weapon. If you are killed by an automobile, you are just as dead as if you had been shot through the heart.

A phrase like "an unarmed man" makes a talking point-- as if matters of life and death should be discussed in terms of how you can spin a talking point.

The biggest and most common talking point when the police fire at someone is counting how many bullets they fired. There are politicians, media people and-- above all-- community activists who can work themselves into a rage over how many bullets were fired.

If we stop and think-- which of course the demagogues hope we will never do-- it is hard to see any moral difference between killing someone with one bullet or with dozens of bullets.

People who have never fired a gun in their lives say that they cannot understand why the police fired so many bullets. If it is something that they have never experienced, there is of course no reason why they should be expected to understand.

But, even after confessing their ignorance, such people often proceed to spout off, just as if they knew what they were talking about.

It is very easy for a pistol shot to miss, even in the safety and calm of a firing range, much less in a desperate situation where a decision must be made in a split second that can cost you your life or end someone else's life.

In a life-and-death situation, nobody counts how many bullets he is firing, much less how many bullets others are firing. It is not like a western movie, where the hero whips out his six-shooter, fires one time, and the villain drops dead.

A factual study of more than 200 real life incidents where the police fired their guns found that most of the shots missed.

Even at a distance as close as six feet, just over half the shots missed. This may be far less surprising to people who have actually fired pistols than to people who have not.

Not only can someone who is shooting a pistol for real not know beforehand whether or not his shots will hit the person who poses a danger, often it is not clear afterwards whether the shot hit anybody, depending on where it hit.

Nor does even a clear hit always render the wounded person harmless. When your life is on the line, you keep on firing until you are damn sure it is safe to stop.

Only afterwards does anybody count how many shots were fired. That is when the editorial office heroes give vent to their righteous indignation and their ignorant assumption that better "training" or better "rules" can solve the problem.

Such people seem to have no sense of the tragedy of the human condition, that there are times when decisions have to be made and acted upon immediately, whether or not we know as much as we would like to know or can carry out our decisions as perfectly as we wish we could.

People who are full of excuses for criminals-- bad childhood, unemployment, unfair world-- sit in the safety and comfort of their editorial offices and presume policemen to be guilty until proved innocent.

And they concoct clever headlines about killing an "unarmed" person, as if someone trying to run you over with a car poses no danger.

Where the person killed is black, as in the present case, that settles it, as far as the politically correct commentators are concerned, even though two of the three policemen who shot him are also black.

Not only do the people who put their lives on the line to protect the rest of us deserve better, we all deserve better than to have our own security undermined by those who undermine law enforcement.

The police themselves can back off on law enforcement when irresponsible charges can ruin their careers and their lives. No one pays a higher price for that than low-income minority communities where crime flourishes.
 
That's pretty sickening.

Get back to me the next time you lose a family member who was unarmed when cops shot 41 bullets at him.
 
As I understand it, most police departments have as their policy, the idea that you only use your weapon if your life is in danger, or the life of another innocent person is in danger. And once you shoot, you then keep shooting until the threat is completely removed.

People who scream over the idea that cops fired 41 times at a guy, don't seem to know this. Thankfully, Sowell does, and writes clearly about it.

----------------------------------------

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/...8/the_bullet_counters?page=full&comments=true

The Bullet Counters

by Thomas Sowell
Wednesday, May 28, 2008

"Killing an Unarmed Man." That is how the front-page headline in the New York Times characterized an incident in which a man tried to run over a policeman with his car and was shot by three policemen on the scene, including his intended victim.

An automobile is a deadly weapon. If you are killed by an automobile, you are just as dead as if you had been shot through the heart.

A phrase like "an unarmed man" makes a talking point-- as if matters of life and death should be discussed in terms of how you can spin a talking point.

The biggest and most common talking point when the police fire at someone is counting how many bullets they fired. There are politicians, media people and-- above all-- community activists who can work themselves into a rage over how many bullets were fired.

If we stop and think-- which of course the demagogues hope we will never do-- it is hard to see any moral difference between killing someone with one bullet or with dozens of bullets.

People who have never fired a gun in their lives say that they cannot understand why the police fired so many bullets. If it is something that they have never experienced, there is of course no reason why they should be expected to understand.

But, even after confessing their ignorance, such people often proceed to spout off, just as if they knew what they were talking about.

It is very easy for a pistol shot to miss, even in the safety and calm of a firing range, much less in a desperate situation where a decision must be made in a split second that can cost you your life or end someone else's life.

In a life-and-death situation, nobody counts how many bullets he is firing, much less how many bullets others are firing. It is not like a western movie, where the hero whips out his six-shooter, fires one time, and the villain drops dead.

A factual study of more than 200 real life incidents where the police fired their guns found that most of the shots missed.

Even at a distance as close as six feet, just over half the shots missed. This may be far less surprising to people who have actually fired pistols than to people who have not.

Not only can someone who is shooting a pistol for real not know beforehand whether or not his shots will hit the person who poses a danger, often it is not clear afterwards whether the shot hit anybody, depending on where it hit.

Nor does even a clear hit always render the wounded person harmless. When your life is on the line, you keep on firing until you are damn sure it is safe to stop.

Only afterwards does anybody count how many shots were fired. That is when the editorial office heroes give vent to their righteous indignation and their ignorant assumption that better "training" or better "rules" can solve the problem.

Such people seem to have no sense of the tragedy of the human condition, that there are times when decisions have to be made and acted upon immediately, whether or not we know as much as we would like to know or can carry out our decisions as perfectly as we wish we could.

People who are full of excuses for criminals-- bad childhood, unemployment, unfair world-- sit in the safety and comfort of their editorial offices and presume policemen to be guilty until proved innocent.

And they concoct clever headlines about killing an "unarmed" person, as if someone trying to run you over with a car poses no danger.

Where the person killed is black, as in the present case, that settles it, as far as the politically correct commentators are concerned, even though two of the three policemen who shot him are also black.

Not only do the people who put their lives on the line to protect the rest of us deserve better, we all deserve better than to have our own security undermined by those who undermine law enforcement.

The police themselves can back off on law enforcement when irresponsible charges can ruin their careers and their lives. No one pays a higher price for that than low-income minority communities where crime flourishes.

Oh, yeah, thank God we have Thomas Sowell, so addicted to con dick that he’ll come up with novel ways of justifying the murders of his own fucking people. Yeah. We need someone like that. Wouldn’t it be funny if his son got himself shot 41 times by a cop? You never know, it happens. Boy that would be funny. Then we could look forward to Sowell’s column telling us why it was totally justified for a cop to shoot his own son 41 times, right?

You piece of shit. I fucking can ‘t stand white people who go looking for some whore like Sowell to excuse their own racism with. I really can’t. Frankly, this would be a better world without both you, and Sowell.
 
Wait, the guy tried to run over a policeman, and the policeman (and his partners) used deadly force to stop him. Now you people are whining about how many shots were fired?

Either the first few shots killed him or they didn't. If they didn't, the police were justified in continuing to fire. If they did, then the rest of the shots are not relevant.


"Get back to me the next time you lose a family member who was unarmed when cops shot 41 bullets at him."

How about I get back to you when any member of my family tries to murder a law enforcement officer and is killed in the process. Because that is what happened here.


Racist? Its racist to shoot someone who is trying to run you over? What kind of bullshit is that? Whether you like or dislike Sowell is one thing. But to try and excuse the attempted murder of a police officer by trying to make the murderer look like a victim based on race is just as bad a form of racism as Bull Connor's dogs and fire hoses.


This sort of nonsense is nauseating.


Personally, I was amused by the answer the Tampa Police Chief gave to reporters after a man who killed two police officers and wounded another was shot 60 something times. The reporter asked why the police officers fired 60 times, and the chief responded "because thats all the bullets they had".

If you don't want to get shot many, many times, I would suggest not trying to kill police officers.
 
I guess police officers are supposed to allow themselves (and their partners) to be run down and killed, since the driver of a car is "unarmed."

While the incidence of police violence against blacks compared to whites is documented, complaining about the number of shots fired at a speeding vehicle bent on murder is ridiculous. Even more ridiculous is calling the driver "unarmed".
 
That's pretty sickening.

Get back to me the next time you lose a family member who was unarmed when cops shot 41 bullets at him.

I'm not familar with this story so maybe I am missing something here but if a person in a car attempts to run over a police officer what does he think is going to happen to him?
 
I'm not familar with this story so maybe I am missing something here but if a person in a car attempts to run over a police officer what does he think is going to happen to him?

Apparently a stern warning is in order.
 
Yep, thats it. Its all about our manliness. Our machismo is why we think its ridiculous that a man trying to kill a cop with a vehicle was not unarmed and was not an innocent victim.
 
Do you not believe that someone would try and run a cop down to avoid arrest?

Or is it an automatic assumption that anytime a police officer uses his firearm he MUST be violating the rights of some poor oppressed individual?
 
Do you not believe that someone would try and run a cop down to avoid arrest?

Or is it an automatic assumption that anytime a police officer uses his firearm he MUST be violating the rights of some poor oppressed individual?

1. I take it that you don't really know the facts of the situation any better than me, and you're just assuming that the police were on the right because that's who you associate more strongly with?

Oh no, that's crazy.

2. Yes.
 
I know there are corrupt cops and that there are cops that do horrible things.

But I also believe that they are a tiny minority of the people serving in law enforcement.

So no, I do not automatically assume that anytime a police officer uses his firearm he MUST be violating the rights of some poor oppressed individual?

I have known too many cops for that. I have also seen too many badass thugs that thrive on terrorizing people turn into whining posers pretending that they are innocent and that the cops were out to get them.
 
I think its important to note that the people in this threads who blamed the cops for being racists, had no other information either.

I understand you want to get more info. That is completely understandable.

But the other two that made automatic judgements, without any additional information, are the ones that disgust me.
 
I do not necessarily blame the cops. Sowell just isn't very clear in his article. And you know, I'm a lib, so you're gonna get mad at me if I say anything. ;)
 
I was sarcastic towards you.

But your skepticism is a far cry from what was expressed previously in this thread.
 
I've only read about the incident. All I can say is that where I am if I fired at a vehicle coming towards me then I would be disciplined. The rule is you get out of the way and you don't shoot at the vehicle as it is leaving the scene. If I fired and killed the driver coming towards me I might, just might, be able to use a defence of necessity (self-defence) to evade a murder conviction and possibly be able to be aquitted of manslaughter as well. If I shot at the vehicle and killed someone in the car as it fled the scene then I would be in big, big trouble.

Having said that, I don't know the finer details of the case, only that the judge found that the prosecution didn't prove its case.
 
Damn if I had shot everyone that tried to run over me on Dale Mabry highway in Tampa there would be bodies everywhere. I would never have gotten to work for all the paperwork.
 
Dale Mabry? Dale Mabry is the best placed for paramedic training. I bet there were 2 pedestrians a week run over when I lived down there. Its like the old video game Frogger.
 
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