The Constitution Mandates That The Federal Government Be A Fraction Of What It is.

[Robo]

We disagree that FedCo doesn't have Constitutional authority to build roads and post offices, and maintain such.

Well James Madison seems to agree with me and not you.

"If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare,
and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare,
they may take the care of religion into their own hands;
they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish
and pay them out of their public treasury;
they may take into their own hands the education of children,
establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union;
they may assume the provision of the poor;
they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads;
in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation
down to the most minute object of police,
would be thrown under the power of Congress.... Were the power
of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for,
it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature
of the limited Government established by the people of America." (James Madison)

 

[MAGA MAN]

Well James Madison seems to agree with me and not you.

"If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare,
and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare,
they may take the care of religion into their own hands;
they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish
and pay them out of their public treasury;
they may take into their own hands the education of children,
establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union;
they may assume the provision of the poor;
they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads;
in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation
down to the most minute object of police,
would be thrown under the power of Congress.... Were the power
of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for,
it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature
of the limited Government established by the people of America." (James Madison)

FedCo hasn't taken regulation of all roads.

 

[MAGA MAN]

You treat the Framers the same way that fundamentalist fanatics treat the Evangelists. You worship chapter and verse of the Constitution the same way they treat the Bible and Muslim nutcases treat the Koran. Constitutionalism is all a power play to leave us at the mercy of private interests.

So you hate the Constitution. Your last statement proves that you also don't understand it.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Actually The Constitution is a warranty contract between government and the people. The Constitution never violated that warranty, but government has violated it several hundred times and even before the ink was dry.

Off the People, Buy the People, and Force the People

The Gubmint you blame is the same one set up by the Constitution you worship and try to bully us into obeying your political theocracy. A republic is a sheltered and exclusivist oligarchy. The disunifying Constitution caused the Civil War, yet that liar Lincoln claimed it set up a government for the people when it was the same kind of government that the Confederacy set up.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

"My Way or the Highway" Means That Their Way Is the Low Way

"Private Interest" is what built America! The Constitution is a warranty contract, RULE OF LAW that is constructed to separate us from the chaos of anarchy and guarantee no unfair advantage by and for private interest and peaceful coexistence for all within the law.

The rule of law is the law of the rulers. Any manly defiance of them is called "anarchy." The Constitution limited power to a tiny self-interested Establishment. Those who slander democracy by calling it "mob rule" seek to impose Snob Rule.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Dolley's Lapdog Jemmy

Says who? According to you anything that Congress says is in the general welfare and can pass into law in the name of the general welfare is constitutional.

Actually, you nor the Congress gets to say what's in the general welfare, the Constitution enumerates what's in the general welfare.

Again, I'll give you the observations and opinions of Jefferson and Madison on the general welfare.

Thomas Jefferson Opinion on Constitutional Interpretation Date: February 15, 1791

“They are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare , but only to lay taxes for that purpose. To consider the latter phrase not as describing the purpose of the first, but as giving a distinct and independent power to do any act they please which may be good for the Union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless. It would reduce the whole instrument to a single phrase, that of instituting a Congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States; and as they sole judges of the good or evil, it would be also a power to do whatever evil they please . . . . Certainly no such universal power was meant to be given them. It was intended to lace them up straightly within the enumerated powers and those without which, as means, these powers could not be carried into effect.

"If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare,
and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare,
they may take the care of religion into their own hands;
they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish
and pay them out of their public treasury;
they may take into their own hands the education of children,
establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union;
they may assume the provision of the poor;
they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads;
in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation
down to the most minute object of police,
would be thrown under the power of Congress.... Were the power
of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for,
it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature
of the limited Government established by the people of America." (James Madison)

Madison was a complete disaster as President. James Monroe had to take over, defying Madison's useless invention of the Vice-Presidency, and save the nation from the British reconquest.

 

[Zake]

Says who? According to you anything that Congress says is in the general welfare and can pass into law in the name of the general welfare is constitutional

Asked and answered. I said general welfare means things that everyone benefits from, like education. You asked for an example of what that doesn't cover then and I said earmarks. You got anywhere to go or just going to ignore my answers and repeat your claims?

 

[Robo]

FedCo hasn't taken regulation of all roads.

Just every one that federal taxpayer's money is used to build or repair, OTHER THAN POST ROADS huh?

Madison's statement/quote validates my argument that the "post roads clause" doesn't authorize the feds to be involved in any other roads, bridges and whatever not identified by Congress as a post road.

 

[MAGA MAN]

We disagree that FedCo doesn't have Constitutional authority to build roads and post offices, and maintain such.

 

[Robo]

Off the People, Buy the People, and Force the People

The Gubmint you blame is the same one set up by the Constitution.

Bullshit! That shows what you know about the Constitution! The government I blame bears little to resemblance to the one set up by the Constitution.

you try to bully us into obeying your political theocracy.

If you disagree with my interpretations of the Constitution, then bully me with some facts backed by constitutional text instead of your absurd and clueless proclamations.

A republic is a sheltered and exclusivist oligarchy.

Define "sheltered and exclusive" in relation with a Republic!

The disunifying Constitution caused the Civil War, yet that liar Lincoln claimed it set up a government for the people when it was the same kind of government that the Confederacy set up.

Prove there would never have been a Civil War without the Constitution. Explain your assumption with something aside from clueless blabbering.

 

[Robo]

The rule of law is the law of the rulers.

Except when THE PEOPLE know their constitutional rights and hold "the rulers" to them.

 

[Robo]

We disagree that FedCo doesn't have Constitutional authority to build roads and post offices, and maintain such.

Only Post Roads and post offices. There's no constitutional power of the feds to spend a dime on any other infrastructure.

 

[Robo]

Asked and answered. I said general welfare means things that everyone benefits from, like education. You asked for an example of what that doesn't cover then and I said earmarks. You got anywhere to go or just going to ignore my answers and repeat your claims?

Where in the Constitution are "earmarks" prohibited? "The Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes and pay the debts." Why shouldn't every payment made by the Congress be "EARMARKED" so the People will know what they're paying for?

Try again! Name something according to your interpretation of the "general welfare clause," that Congress can't do in the name of the general welfare.

As Jefferson noted, your interpretation leaves all of the rest of the Constitution null and void. as Jefferson said, it reduces the Constitution to a single clause.

 

[Zake]

Where in the Constitution are "earmarks" prohibited? "The Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes and pay the debts." Why shouldn't every payment made by the Congress be "EARMARKED" so the People will know what they're paying for?

Try again! Name something according to your interpretation of the "general welfare clause," that Congress can't do in the name of the general welfare.

As Jefferson noted, your interpretation leaves all of the rest of the Constitution null and void. as Jefferson said, it reduces the Constitution to a single clause.

Do you know what earmarks are? It doesn't sound like it

 

[MAGA MAN]

Only Post Roads and post offices. There's no constitutional power of the feds to spend a dime on any other infrastructure.

Post road: (formerly) a road with stations for furnishing horses for postriders, mail coaches, or travelers.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/post-road

 

[Robo]

Post road: (formerly) a road with stations for furnishing horses for postriders, mail coaches, or travelers.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/post-road

Apparently Madison didn't think that included every road and bridge and tunnel in America, huh? Who will guarantee that the feds only spend on "post roads horses and alike?" I nominate YOU!

 

[MAGA MAN]

I think you're missing the point. I gave you the old definition of post roads. That could include just about any road in America, including my driveway. FedCo only operates a small percentage of roads in the US.

 

[Robo]

Do you know what earmarks are? It doesn't sound like it

Earmarks are taxpayer's loot that the Congress assigns to particular NOUNS!

Now, tell the class WHY Congress cannot EARMARK particular money to particular places constitutionally.

Then Tell the class WHAT by your interpretation of the general welfare clause Congress CAN'T do in the name of the general welfare. So far you've seriously failed at that request.

 

[Robo]

I think you're missing the point. I gave you the old definition of post roads. That could include just about any road in America, including my driveway. FedCo only operates a small percentage of roads in the US.

The point is, in order for the feds to finance the nation's infrastructure constitutionally, they'd have to designate even your driveway as being a post road and Madison didn't agree with that. He feared that Congress would spend money on any roads as post roads in the name of the general welfare. If he thought the post roads clause already covered every road, he'd never bothered to argue Congress would spend on every road, bridge and tunnel in the name of the general welfare, now would he?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Limiting Infrastructure Was Disunifying

Just every one that federal taxpayer's money is used to build or repair, OTHER THAN POST ROADS huh?

Madison's statement/quote validates my argument that the "post roads clause" doesn't authorize the feds to be involved in any other roads, bridges and whatever not identified by Congress as a post road.

You quote that bitter squirt Jemmy Madison as if his word were final and infallible. Again, that's theocratic. We don't have to accept a Constitution written by an anti-democratic snob like him, so his fatcat fatwas are irrelevant.