The Good Ole South

[maineman]

and southern reagan democrats were, for the most part, racists as well. ANd reagan knew that and worked hard for the southern racist vote. I love it how southerners tap dance when confronted with the fact that reagan chose Philadephia, Mississippi as the town to announce his presidential bid..... a town whose ONLY claim to fame was that three civil rights workers had been brutally murdered there, yet the murderer walked the streets a free man (hell, he probably was in the crowd cheering for ronnie) because no jury in Philadelphia, Mississippi would ever convict a white man for murdering a black man and two northern jews who had no right to be there. Of all the towns that reagan could have chosen, he chose Philadelphia, Mississippi - and he made sure to make "state's rights" (a well known southern code phrase for segregation) a part of that speech.

But the republican party in the south is not courting racists...... nah. God damn it, I wish. for once, one of those crackers would just fess up to it.

 

[maineman]

Have you never heard of Frederick Dougless?

Have you never heard of the Abolitionists?

Yep. They were opposed to slavery. This doesn't mean that they believed the races were equal. Should I pull the quotes from Lincoln in his debate with Douglass, to illustrate how racist Abe was? Slavery and Racism are two completely different issues. Your problem is, you want to make them the same, and they simply aren't.

now if you could pull quotes from Frederick Douglas where he said that black men were somehow inferior to white men, you might have a point.

I'll wait.

 

[Jarod]

Sojourner Truth, Harriet Tubman, Frederick Douglas and William Still all lived in 1864 and believed that slaves were equal to white people.

 

[Prakosh]

Saying the Civil war was not about slavery but is about states rights is akin to saying Roe v. Wade is not about abortion, its about the right to privacy.

I've not said this. Slavery was an issue, and the Civil War became about this issue when Lincoln made it the issue. My point is, the slavery issue in 1864 has nothing to do with racism. You can believe that it's not morally right for one man to own another, and still believe that one race is superior of inferior to another, so the two viewpoints are not synonymous. The issue of slavery was important because the economic backbone of the Southern states, depended on slave labor, not because Southerners believed whites were superior to blacks... that view was held by Northerners as well.

I don't know whether to laugh at your ignorance or cry. You have it backwards here Dixie, as usual. You say, "You can believe that it's not morally right for one man to own another, and still believe that one race is superior of inferior to another, so the two viewpoints are not synonymous." No they are not synonymous. But the ideology of slavery as it was practiced after 1650 or so in the United States was built on the ideology of white supremacy. In fact one can think white people are superior without enslaving black people but one cannot enslave black people without thinking that they are inferior. That is why you have it backwards. They are not synonymous they are logically linked in the sense that one depends on the other to exist as an ideology. You never answered me as to why all the slaves were black, nor did you answer any of the observations I made about the "one drop" laws nor about Plessy v. Ferguson and the segregation of whites and blacks nor have you said anything about the "Solid South" and what it referred to?

 

[Jarod]

Well John Brown had been hanged by 1864, so you win on that one... but he died for the belife that slaves were equal to white people.

 

[Damocles]

Have you never heard of Frederick Dougless?

Have you never heard of the Abolitionists?

Yep. They were opposed to slavery. This doesn't mean that they believed the races were equal. Should I pull the quotes from Lincoln in his debate with Douglass, to illustrate how racist Abe was? Slavery and Racism are two completely different issues. Your problem is, you want to make them the same, and they simply aren't.

Frederick Douglass was Lincoln's advisor and an ex-slave. When did they debate?

 

[Damocles]

now if you could pull quotes from Frederick Douglas where he said that black men were somehow inferior to white men, you might have a point.

I'll wait.

Not likely to happen. Frederick Douglass was black, an ex-slave, and an advisor to Lincoln. I want to know when they debated...

 

[Jarod]

HAHA Dixie thinks Lincon debated Frederick Douglas...


You are so fucking ignorant on this issue it is pittafull!

 

[Prakosh]

Frederick Douglass was Lincoln's advisor and an ex-slave. When did they debate?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Dixie doesn't know the difference between the White man from Illinois who Abraham Lincoln actually debated, Stephen A. Douglas, and the escaped slave, abolitionist, author and newspaper man Frederick Douglass. Hey Dixie why don't you go back to high school. I think you need to retake that mandatory American History class again.

 

[Jarod]

Dixie, you ignorant idiot, Abe Lincon may not have belived Slaves were equal to whites... but he was not the ONLY person alive in 1864.

 

[maineman]

to come to Dixie's defense (I just flinched, thinking that lightning might stike)....I do not think that his post means that he thought Lincoln debated Frederick Douglass.... I think, from past discussions, that he knows that Lincoln debated Stephen Douglas...and he is correct in suggesting that Abe made statements in those debates that indicated that he felt that blacks were not equal in all respects with whites.

 

[Jarod]

In Dixie's defense, I doubt they teach about Fredereck Dougless in Dixieland elementry schools...

 

[Jarod]

to come to Dixie's defense (I just flinched, thinking that lightning might stike)....I do not think that his post means that he thought Lincoln debated Frederick Douglass.... I think, from past discussions, that he knows that Lincoln debated Stephen Douglas...and he is correct in suggesting that Abe made statements in those debates that indicated that he felt that blacks were not equal in all respects with whites.

Looking back I agree...


But he fails to acknoledge that CLEARLY Fredereck Dougless was a person, who was alive in 1864, who belived that a slave was equal to a white person. Because of this belife FD fought to remove himself from slavery and became a champion of the Abolitionists a group of people alive in 1864 who believed that slaves were equal to whites and should be treates as such.

 

[Jarod]

Dixie, have you ever heard of Frederick Douglass? Do you really think he beileved slaves were inferior to whites?

 

[Damocles]

to come to Dixie's defense (I just flinched, thinking that lightning might stike)....I do not think that his post means that he thought Lincoln debated Frederick Douglass.... I think, from past discussions, that he knows that Lincoln debated Stephen Douglas...and he is correct in suggesting that Abe made statements in those debates that indicated that he felt that blacks were not equal in all respects with whites.

Abe did make remarks like that....

 

[uscitizen]

At that time in history very few whites thought Blacks were equal to whites.
Many thought they should not be slaves, but not equal. How long was it till they got to vote ?

 

[Jarod]

I never said Abe did not make such remarks.

What Dixhead said was "No one in America, in 1864 belived slaves were equal to white people..." !

He forgot about the slaves themselves.. I guess he does not reconise them as full people!

 

[Jarod]

"That man over there says that women need to be helped into carriages, and lifted over ditches, and to have the best place everywhere. Nobody ever helps me into carriages, or over mud puddles, or gives me any best place, and ain't I a woman? ... I have plowed, and planted, and gathered into barns, and no man could head me -- and ain't I a woman? I could work as much and eat as much as a man (when I could get it), and bear the lash as well -- and ain't I a woman? I have borne thirteen children and seen most all sold off to slavery and when I cried out with my mother's grief, none but Jesus heard me -- and ain't I woman?"
- Sojourner Truth

Dont tell me she did not think a slave was equal to a white person.

 

[Cypress]

The civil war was about states rights... but the Big states right issue was SLAVERY.

Saying the Civil war was not about slavery but is about states rights is akin to saying Roe v. Wade is not about abortion, its about the right to privacy.

Good lord, I had to listen to my Texan mother-in-law lecture me last night that the civil war had nothing to do with slavery; it had to do with seccession.

I had to bite my tongue, to keep from telling her that the reason the south seceeded was because of the fight over expansion of slavery (or lack, thereof) into new states and territories.

 

[Prakosh]

I have a post that I wrote ten years ago dealing with Lincoln's racism. He did not believe that Black people were equal. Nor did he believe that they would ever be accepted in American society which is why he belonged to the Colonization Society which believed that the best option For Black pople was to ship them all back to Africa. There were also Black people who believed that Black people whould never be free in America, the latest in a long line being Marcus Gavey whose Black Star Line purchased, refurbished and renamed a ship the Booker T. Washington to take Colonists to what is now the present state of Liberia in the early 1920s. Lincoln rather infamously said, "If I could have won the war without freeing the slaves I would have done it." (or something to that effect). Dixie is wasting his time, virtually the whole country was racist in the nineteenth century, in the sense that nearly every white person North and South believed that White people were superior not only to black people but to everyone who wasn’t white, in fact every country inhabited by white people had universities and other institutions that believed, practiced and taught that ideology which was managed under different names, the white man's burden, manifest destiny, etc. All one has to read to discover this is Edward Said's great ground-breaking work, Orientalism (1978). This is nothing new, but to claim that slavery wasn't founded on white supremacy is to disregard the history of America up until the first shots were fired at Fort Sumter. For a good history of the legalization and transformation of indentured servitude which included both blacks and whites to slavery which quickly became legally exclusively black one needs only read In The Matter of Color (1978) by A. Leon Higgenbothem, Jr., one of America's great legal minds and once widely believed to be heir to the Supreme Court seat now occupied by Clarence Thomas. Had Thurgood Marshall retired under a Democratic president Higgonbothem would occupy that position on the Court today.