The Left and One Party Rule

[Independent]

Folks, I have a couple of questions I would like to throw at you.

1) Do Liberals really think that by eliminating the Conservative voice in America, that everything would be fine?

2) Where would Conservatives fit in modern America?

I qualify that last question as I think that to be a Conservative, you cannot adopt the so-called "fiscally conservative, socially liberal" copout.

1) They do

2) We will still be there to pick up the pieces and put them back together.

 

[apple0154]

All of that has already been tried in the old Soviet Union and failed miserably. It failed because without profits there is no incentive to provide anything of any real value. Communist countries live in squalor, North Korea, Cuba. Have you no sence of economic history?

There doesn't have to be an incentive if the government is doing it. Make it their job to do it. What profit does the government get out of providing medical care? Granted, there are long term benefits but governments think short term. That's another reason ObamaCare was necessary. Governments could use the extra money to promise a new things in order to get people's votes. Now medical care is an obligation.

One doesn't need to be an economic scholar to know some people grab all they can, repeated over and over down through time. With modernization and ways to keep up to date on the actions of government people can be helped. There's no need for national security when dealing with welfare and other social programs so there's no need for secrecy and corrupt government. In the past things happened due to no laws in place. One could say it was capitalism practiced by communists and outlaws. Grab all you can, be it foreign lands, goods, whatever.

I recall someone saying socialism would never work unless all the countries of the world were on board. Makes sense just like social programs don't work unless all the citizens are on board, willingly or unwillingly. That said, I am not a fan of socialism where governments control where one works, etc. I am a fan of social programs. There is HUGE difference.

 

[Robo]

That's a disconnect. It's all about proportionality. Canada has 35 million. How can Germany handle 81 million? The answer is the number of doctors is in porportion to the population. Another disconnect is the land size argument. There are few countries as spread out as Canada, yet, they manage medical care. The size of the country, be it square miles or population, makes no difference. The plans are adjusted accordingly.

There’s some pretty good reading on the internet about the German healthcare system and if you check the information from both right and left perspectives you’ll discover that the German healthcare system isn’t a locked single payer system.

Geography and population certainly do play a roll in management of a healthcare system. Canada’s 31 million is much easier managed because of the amount of doctors and healthcare facilities necessary for a more controllable system and even at that, the system has flaws and requires rationing of care and long waiting list for care. The fact that America has 300 million population, geographically spread out means that delivering healthcare, (and especially emergency care) will be more costly no matter what system is in place.

You also ignore the fact that America has been anointed by the rest of the western world to be the world’s protector and police force, bearer of arms and military and minding other country’s business costing 1/3 of the national budget and the fact that America is on the edge of bankruptcy with a 16 trillion $ national debt. Germany and Canada have no such economic issues to contend with.

 

[Robo]

As to the fewer people paying into the system nationalized health care costs at least 1/3 less than the US "pay or suffer" system and longevity is equal to or greater than in the US. There is no rational argument against government health care.

But there is a rational argument opposed to government healthcare and I’ve been making it.

America once had the best healthcare system in the world before the federal government mandated Medicare & Medicaid and the mountains of paperwork that went with it and its waste fraud and abuse. And even for those like you who favor a single payer system you present no rational argument WHY you oppose or ignore the constitutional element of the issue whereby the federal government is forbidden by the Constitution from being involved in the healthcare system and if you favor a single payer system WHY wouldn’t State operated systems be better and at least constitutional. I understand your willful ignorance of that question and it’s surely because you have no rational argument in opposition to it.

 

[Robo]

If more doctors immigrate to the US, GREAT! Supplying a needed service to the population AND paying taxes to support it. It's a win-win situation. And as for seeing nurses that's great, too. Do we want a person suffering from heartburn taking up the time of a heart surgeon just because they can afford to pay him/her? It's called screening just like requiring a referral from a family doctor to see a specialist.

Foreign doctors are incentivized to immigrate to America now and in the past because they were and are more financially rewarded for their services in America. If America goes to a single payer system doctor fees will be capped and the incentive for foreign doctors to come to America will be lost.

 

[Robo]

Healthcare in Brazil is a Constitutional right

If you and the left believe that healthcare should be a constitutional right, then why haven’t you and the left worked for a constitutional amendment for same as required by the Constitution?

 

[Robo]

After all these years does anyone expect individual States to carry the ball?

Does Massachusetts have its own STATE healthcare system that Obama-care was modeled after?

 

[Robo]

Huh? It appears you're unable to understand what you wrote. "Reserved to the people." Is there any American that was not aware of Obama's plan regarding medical care? Not only did he get it passed but the people re-elected him when the Repub mission/message was they would rescind it. Say what you will about ObamaCare but it certainly wasn't sprung unawares on the people and even if it was the people had a choice last November to get rid of it. The people have spoken. I ask, "Why do you have a problem with that? Have you no respect for our Constitution?"

“Reserved to the people” means that any power not delegated to the federal government by the Constitution, or used by a State is ”reserved to the people” TO DO FOR THEMSELVES.” Like maybe petition and support a constitutional amendment to allow the federal government to operate a healthcare system which they are forbidden to do by the Constitution otherwise. However there’s really no real necessity for that when y’all lefties could just vote in all lefty State politicians and lobby them to provide the folks in your State with a STATE healthcare system.

 

[Robo]

I have repeatedly said we need what many object to and that's a form of one world government.

And who would you have govern your “One World Government?” What happens to our Constitution and its guaranteed rights?

This is all a manufactured crisis. Food, water, the ability to supply manufactured homes/shelters......there is no shortage. However, there will be a major problem if the West doesn't start to contribute to the rest of the world. If China and other countries have to scratch and scrape via capitalism to get ahead they are not going to turn around and ask if we need anything when they do surpass us.

The west already contributes more to the rest of the world than anybody else.

Capitalism isn’t “scratching and scraping,” it’s the only viable and workable system of economy and viable living standards ever known to mankind.

The only way America can be surpassed in anything by any other nation is to allow socialism and the vote buying scam therewith and allowing the government/Wall Street crony capitalism and the bribery system therewith to continue.

 

[zappasguitar]

“Reserved to the people” means that any power not delegated to the federal government by the Constitution, or used by a State is ”reserved to the people” TO DO FOR THEMSELVES.” Like maybe petition and support a constitutional amendment to allow the federal government to operate a healthcare system which they are forbidden to do by the Constitution otherwise. However there’s really no real necessity for that when y’all lefties could just vote in all lefty State politicians and lobby them to provide the folks in your State with a STATE healthcare system.

And that is what "We the People" are doing.

We decided to do for ourselves and elected people we believed would implement the programs we want...like Obamacare.

 

[Robo]

Instead of assuming the poor have no incentive to work try offering them a job. You have the cause and effect backwards. They rely on the government because they don't have a job.

They don’t have a job because socialist government has diminished all incentive for them to look for a job. Mexicans come here and go to work almost immediately because they’re willing to work where so many Americans think particular jobs are beneath their dignity and they don’t find better paying jobs when they do look because most have ignored their education and or training and they don’t find jobs when they look for them because socialist government has taxed and regulated American businesses off shore.

 

[zappasguitar]

And who would you have govern your “One World Government?” What happens to our Constitution and its guaranteed rights?



The west already contributes more to the rest of the world than anybody else.

Capitalism isn’t “scratching and scraping,” it’s the only viable and workable system of economy and viable living standards ever known to mankind.

The only way America can be surpassed in anything by any other nation is to allow socialism and the vote buying scam therewith and allowing the government/Wall Street crony capitalism and the bribery system therewith to continue.

Let me ask you.

How would you feel about a "one world government" if it was organized and ran according to the Constitution of the USA?

I keep hearing all this paranoia about how EEEEVIL a "one world government" is supposed to be, but the problem is no one can articulate precisely what it is that frightens them so about the idea.

 

[Robo]

Jealousy? Greed? I don't know what it is but to say poor people receiving government assistance prefer that to having a decent job is just nonsense. Pure nonsense.

“Decent job,” is in the eye of the beholder! One man’s crummy job is another man’s praise to the Lord that he has the same job.

:lol: You're a funny man. The goal is to not have too big a discrepancy between people or, rather, not to have basic necessities priced out of the reach of certain people. That is solved by the government giving them money/stamps in order to purchase goods. If you know of another way I'm listening.

“Capitalism is the unequal sharing of the wealth and socialism is the equal sharing of the misery.”

If minimum wage was restricted to entry level positions, however, there are many jobs that pay minimum wage. The problem is people are kicked off welfare programs when they get a job even though the job does not pay enough to survive, specifically minimum wage jobs. That is the danger, the drawback with low minimum wage. In effect it's telling the individual we're going to kick them off government assistance and give them a job whose benefits are less than government assistance. What logic is applied there?

People who get kicked off of welfare because they’re working a minimum wage job are the same people that ignored their education and or training for better jobs. They’re high school dropouts, teenage unwed mothers and bastards so lazy nobody will hire them for any length of time for any job.

 

[Robo]

And that is what "We the People" are doing.

We decided to do for ourselves and elected people we believed would implement the programs we want...like Obamacare.

Except the people you elected have no constitutional authority to GIVE YOU A FUCKING THING beyond protection from others, other nations and guaranteeing your rights and freedoms especially our freedom from government.

 

[Robo]

Let me ask you.

How would you feel about a "one world government" if it was organized and ran according to the Constitution of the USA?

I keep hearing all this paranoia about how EEEEVIL a "one world government" is supposed to be, but the problem is no one can articulate precisely what it is that frightens them so about the idea.

Government by its very nature is authoritarianism and corruption.

“Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, its force like fire a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible actions.” (George Washington)

Authoritarianism by its very nature is the denial and diminishing of inalienable rights and freedoms.

The BIGGER the government, the BIGGER the AUTHORITARIANISM and the BIGGER the CORRUPTION.

You should be able to figure out my feelings about government, especially BIG government and a “WORLD GOVERNMENT” is pure insanity!

It would by a cold day in hell when a world government would adopt and follow the American Constitution. Our own government won’t even do that.

 

[zappasguitar]

Except the people you elected have no constitutional authority to GIVE YOU A FUCKING THING beyond protection from others, other nations and guaranteeing your rights and freedoms especially our freedom from government.

We are all constitutionally guaranteed the right to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

If the government must give some people free healthcare in order for them to go on enjoying the right to life, then so be it.

 

[zappasguitar]

Government by its very nature is authoritarianism and corruption.

“Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, its force like fire a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible actions.” (George Washington)

Authoritarianism by its very nature is the denial and diminishing of inalienable rights and freedoms.

The BIGGER the government, the BIGGER the AUTHORITARIANISM and the BIGGER the CORRUPTION.

You should be able to figure out my feelings about government, especially BIG government and a “WORLD GOVERNMENT” is pure insanity!

It would by a cold day in hell when a world government would adopt and follow the American Constitution. Our own government won’t even do that.

Well if Government is by it's very nature "corruption", then George Washington must have known what would ultimately happen to the great experiment in Democracy he and the other founding fathers created...it was doomed to be corrupted from the very start.

I get it by the way...BIG GOVERNMENT BAD!

World Government "insanity"...you just can't explain precisely WHY it's "insanity".

 

[cawacko]

Well if Government is by it's very nature "corruption", then George Washington must have known what would ultimately happen to the great experiment in Democracy he and the other founding fathers created...it was doomed to be corrupted from the very start.

I get it by the way...BIG GOVERNMENT BAD!

World Government "insanity"...you just can't explain precisely WHY it's "insanity".

If I may play devil's advocate what would be the benefit of a one world government over the way the world governs itself now?

 

[canceled.2021.1]

We are all constitutionally guaranteed the right to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

If the government must give some people free healthcare in order for them to go on enjoying the right to life, then so be it.

Except that isn't a guarenteed right. The preamble is just that.

Using your definition there is no limit to government power.

Why do you trust the government so much? Why do you have so much faith?

 

[canceled.2021.1]

Well if Government is by it's very nature "corruption", then George Washington must have known what would ultimately happen to the great experiment in Democracy he and the other founding fathers created...it was doomed to be corrupted from the very start.

I get it by the way...BIG GOVERNMENT BAD!

World Government "insanity"...you just can't explain precisely WHY it's "insanity".

History tells us.

It isn't government that is corrupt. It is man. You seem to want to ignore all of human history and human nature.