The main issue with Christianity

[Saint Guinefort]

Incorrect. That is something you have to show; you don't get to simply declare it.


This depends on how you (mis)define "pregnancy." Nonetheless, it has no relevancy to this discussion. Were you planning on commenting on the topic that I am discussing or are you going to try to derail my topic?

I am speaking of the living human that is being killed by another living human. Are you trying to say that you are perfectly fine with one living human killing another living human in an attempt to make one's life more convenient? Is that your position?


Neither the word "fetus" nor the word "body" appear in the question. I'll write it out for you again:

Do you advocate and/ the killing of living humans who have committed no crime and who have not expressed any desire to die?

Political prisoners are good examples. They haven't committed any crime, but in many parts of the world they are summarily killed nonetheless.

Nope. I have determined what the real debate is, i.e. the advocacy for the killing of living humans who have committed no crime and who have not expressed any desire to die.


Sure there are people who argue that if a living human is young enough then he should be able to be summarily killed. In fact, you are one of those people who argue that. Frankly, I think that is a shitty position.


Right. You recognize it as something that should be highly illegal ... and you advocate for it.


You're answering the wrong question. Nobody is asking if you are fine with the killing of a living human who has committed no crime and who has not expressed any desire to die ... as long as that living human is not you. But what if you were marked for execution because someone filed the necessary paperwork to get your execution declared a "convenience"? You opened this thread showing just how adeptly you can EVADE that question. So, instead of declaring it to be absurd, would you please answer it honestly? That answer would be much better coming from you than coming from me.



Nope. You are totally immoral, and you are an intellectual coward. You have done nothing but EVADE, dismiss and alter the question in a desperate panic to not let your shitty misanthropy be revealed openly.

I get it. You are morally bankrupt. You would do whatever is necessary to distract women and never let them realize that they are carrying a separate, living human ... in the hopes of tricking them into killing that living human ... presumably because there is something about the killing of living humans that you find thrilling.

Got it. You are a hardline pro-lifer and you don't care that you are forcing your views on other people. You are not an honest debater on the topic. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[gfm7175]

Okay. I really have no interest in Christian mythology.

Okay. Then why did you ask? And why are you participating in this thread about Christianity?

 

[BidenPresident]

Okay. Then why did you ask?

I thought you had a rational answer. Not Sunday School lessons.

 

[gfm7175]

So why can't you answer my question?

I AM answering it via my asking you a simple question in return (which is leading up to a final point that I want you to realize on your own through completion of this exercise)... Why can't YOU answer MY simple question? I'll ask it again:

Who is the provider of life (according to Christianity/The Bible)?

It relates to your concept that God is good by His nature.

Yes, I realize that you are attempting to form the following argumentation:
[1] gfm7175 claims that God is good by his nature.
[2] God, per the Bible, committed genocide.
[3] Genocide is a very shitty thing to do.
Therefore, given [1] - [3], it follows that God is actually NOT good by his nature.

BAM! GOTCHA, gfm7175!!!

I realize what you are doing, and I'm telling you that I reject #2. I am also trying to walk you through precisely why I reject it (and have you understand it on your own accord), but you're too afraid to do so.

Thou shalt not bear false witness.

Your issue, not mine.

Sorry but I am still stuck on your lie.

No, you are simply evading my line of questioning because you're too chicken shit to walk through a mental exercise with me that directly answers your question to me. That's your issue, not mine.

I don't play gotcha games with semiliterates.

Lie. You literally just tried to play one with me, as explained above, and you are still continuing your attempts to play one with me (see below).

So genocide is "good" if God commands it? Got it.

Continued attempt to play gotcha games.

Walk through my mental exercise with me if you actually care to learn something.

 

[gfm7175]

Personally I don't think anyone should be murdered, not even Amalekite children.

Lie. You condone the killing of very young living humans for convenience purposes.

(I love how you hate abortion but seem absolutely OK with Amalekite children being murdered. That's interesting.)

I love how you refuse to walk through a simple mental exercise with me that explains why what you are calling "murder" and "genocide" are not actually "murder" and "genocide" from God's perspective.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Lie. You condone the killing of very young living humans for convenience purposes.

C'mon!

"Very young?"

A fetus is not a person...it is a fetus. A fetus has its first birthday celebrated one year after it is actually born. A fetus is not a young person...it has not even been born yet.

I love how you refuse to walk through a simple mental exercise with me that explains why what you are calling "murder" and "genocide" are not actually "murder" and "genocide" from God's perspective.

From God's perspective?

How do you know you are not thwarting your god's will by preventing a particular abortion? How do you know an abortion is not part of your god's plan? After all...an abortion may be a free pass to Heaven...right? (Not if you are a fan of St. Augustine or Thomas Aquinas, I acknowledge.)

So???

 

[BidenPresident]

Lie. You condone the killing of very young living humans for convenience purposes.


I love how you refuse to walk through a simple mental exercise with me that explains why what you are calling "murder" and "genocide" are not actually "murder" and "genocide" from God's perspective.

Does God tell you abortion is wrong? Serious question.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Got it. You are a hardline pro-lifer and you don't care that you are forcing your views on other people. You are not an honest debater on the topic. Thanks for the clarification.

My only quibble with your otherwise excellent post is that these people have nothing really to do with favoring life. They are forced-birthers. If you are pro-life, you are against the death penalty, war, firearms in the hands of every moron who has the cash to buy one.

 

[BidenPresident]

My only quibble with your otherwise excellent post is that these people have nothing really to do with favoring life. They are forced-birthers. If you are pro-life, you are against the death penalty, war, firearms in the hands of every moron who has the cash to buy one.

They are just against abortion, yes. Nothing to do with life.

 

[gfm7175]

C'mon!

..."man"... Did you mean to say "C'mon, man!"??

"Very young?"

Yes. What else would you call a living human that has only existed for a short amount of time?

A fetus is not a person...it is a fetus. A fetus has its first birthday celebrated one year after it is actually born. A fetus is not a young person...it has not even been born yet.

Oh really? What species is a fetus? Or is "a fetus" actually not a species at all but rather a particular developmental stage of certain particular species (such as humans)? Why don't you just stick to what is being discussed, which is 'living humans'? Why must you insert all sorts of other irrelevant words into the discussion?

From God's perspective?

This is regarding the question that I asked the other poster (and the question that he first asked me), not regarding the side discussion about abortion.

How do you know you are not thwarting your god's will by preventing a particular abortion? How do you know an abortion is not part of your god's plan? After all...an abortion may be a free pass to Heaven...right? (Not if you are a fan of St. Augustine or Thomas Aquinas, I acknowledge.)

So???

Evil still works out according to his ultimate plan, per the belief.

 

[gfm7175]

Does God tell you abortion is wrong? Serious question.

I thought you "[had] no interest in Christian mythology"...

 

[Saint Guinefort]

I AM answering it via my asking you a simple question in return (which is leading up to a final point that I want you to realize on your own through completion of this exercise)... Why can't YOU answer MY simple question? I'll ask it again:

OK, since you think yourself superior I'll answer your question but you wont' like the answer:

Who is the provider of life (according to Christianity/The Bible)?

That would be God. So I guess by your version of morality if God wants to murder someone it isn't wrong, but if people murder someone it is wrong.

Here's where you fucked up:

1. You solved the Euthyphro dilemma by merely stating that whatever God does is good. Making morality wholly arbitrary.
2. 1 Sam 15:3 if you had any idea what it was about or even read it is one in which God, via his prophet, commands PEOPLE TO DO A GENOCIDE. In other words God commands people to sin. Even by your arbitrary morality.

[3] Genocide is a very shitty thing to do.
Therefore, given [1] - [3], it follows that God is actually NOT good by his nature.

I wanted you explain how it works in YOUR morality. I know what I believe. It isn't a gotcha unless you refuse to answer the question thereby showing your lack of understanding of the topic in toto.

 

[Saint Guinefort]

I thought you "[had] no interest in Christian mythology"...

Why do you never answer questions directly? Sounds pretty...you know...DISHONEST. I guess honesty isn't part of your morality?

 

[BidenPresident]

I thought you "[had] no interest in Christian mythology"...

Correct. Are you saying you can only quote Christian dogma? ok.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

They are just against abortion, yes. Nothing to do with life.

People who are truly pro-life favor a universal health care plan for all citizens, and are willing to pay extra for it if necessary. It's not really necessary in this country, but the forced-birther/anti-lifers are against a national health care plan because they were told it would come out of their pockets. So much for "pro-life," eh?

 

[Taichiliberal]

My only quibble with your otherwise excellent post is that these people have nothing really to do with favoring life. They are forced-birthers. If you are pro-life, you are against the death penalty, war, firearms in the hands of every moron who has the cash to buy one.

They are a psychotic lot.....they profess to LOVE life the nano-second a sperm hits the egg...then they vote against ANY social service for parents or a single parent, as they HATE the very idea of somebody "living off my taxes". And of course, the majority have no problem with the lies that led to invading Iraq, or the amazing waste & mismanagement of 20 years in Afghanistan. Our resident pro-life wonks go into over drive regarding the status of the foster care system or rate of adoption. The underlay of all their hysteria is the paranoia that someone in America is "getting something for nothing" .... and a incessant need to punish people for (GASP!) having pre-marital sex (of course, contraceptives for teens is out of the question .... you can have jr. driver's license at 16 or 17, join the army at 18...go figure).

So all this "christo-fascist" nonsense is just that....nonsense. That none of these folks see the parallel to the likes of the Taliban and Al Qaeda never ceases to amaze me.

And the band played on.

 

[IBDaMann]

The real debate is NOT over this, but rather "what constitutes a life".

Nope. I clearly and unambiguously defined this. I use the global medical community's axiom "If there is a heartbeat, there is life." All medical professionals in every country operate under this axiom.

 

[IBDaMann]

My only quibble with your otherwise excellent post is that these people have nothing really to do with favoring life.

Of course not. Someone who is against the killing of living humans can't possibly be favoring life. What were they thinking?

The true heroes that favor life are the ones who snuff the life out of living humans who have committed no crime and who have not expressed any desire to die. Now those people find life to be truly the most precious thing of all.

They are forced-birthers. If you are pro-life, you are against the death penalty, war, firearms in the hands of every moron who has the cash to buy one.

You are forced-deathers. If you are pro-choice, you are against living humans being able to remain alive, against peace, against firearms in the hands of any law-abiding citizen who wants to be able to defend himself against violent crime, and against children being protected from violent shooters (who are not law-abiding citizens). There's something about death that you sickos CRAVE.

 

[IBDaMann]

And of course, the majority have no problem with the lies that led to invading Iraq,

What lies were those? I'm guessing that you have absolutely no idea of what transpired. I'm right, aren't I.

or the amazing waste & mismanagement of 20 years in Afghanistan.

That would be leftists. Conservatives had been screaming for us to just get out of Afghanistan starting around 2007, but leftists and Democrats in government wouldn't even consider it. The day that Osama Bin Laden was killed and buried at sea, ... nothing changed. Troops were not returned home. Not a single strategy or plan or even daily operation was altered in the least. Spending in Afghanistan continued to increase and conservatives were fighting tooth and nail to just pick up and bug out ... but Democrats were not finished nation building and Obama still had "promises" to keep with his European buddies involving the continued funding of their projects with our taxpayer dollars. Not a single thing changed, and here you are blaming conservatives for the shit liberals pulled. Nice.

Our resident pro-life wonks go into over drive regarding the status of the foster care system or rate of adoption.

I'm sure you simply forgot to include the link to the JPP thread in which our resident pro-life wonks go into over-drive as you indicate. Would you post that link?

.... and a incessant need to punish people for (GASP!) having pre-marital sex

I'm sure you simply forgot to include the link to the JPP thread in which our resident pro-life wonks display their incessant need to punish people for having pre-marital sex, as you indicate. Would you post that link?

 

[RB 60]

Lol!!