The physics of God

Cypress

Well-known member
Perhaps the metaphysical question that has garnered the most interest in intellectual history concerns the existence
of God. Arguments for and against the existence of a creator. come in several types. The laws of physics have been used on. both sides of the debate.


In the 1700s, some figures, like Baron d’Holbach, contended that the system of the universe Isaac Newton gave us leads directly to the lack of a need for any sort of divinity at all. In his masterwork The System of Nature, d’Holbach dismisses philosophers who thought that God was necessary to explain the continual motion of the heavens.

Late-20th-century physics brought the argument back to life. The Standard Model is our best account of the laws governing everything except gravitation. The general theory of relativity. accounts for that. All of these equations have constants within. them—that is, terms that have to be included in the equations to. make the units come out right.

Physicist Robert Dicke pointed out in his article “Dirac’s
Cosmology and Mach’s Principle” that we can arithmetically. combine these constants to give rise to dimensionless. numbers—that is, we can multiply and divide these constants in. combinations that make all the units cancel out. Numbers that. should have nothing to do with each other—things like the age. of the universe, the mass of the proton, and the gravitational. constant—seem to be intricately related when properly. multiplied and divided by each other. That is strange.

Physicist Martin Rees has argued that it seems to be the result of. the fine-tuning of the universe. If these constants were slightly. different in numerical value, the result would be a universe completely incapable of giving rise to life. Richard Swinburn, a professor, contends that the facts arising from contemporary physics show an interrelation and a sensitivity that cannot but. resurrect the teleological argument: The intricacy of the universe implies the existence of an intelligent creator God.

The contingency approach to denying design takes a different line, arguing that there is not actually anything here that needs. explaining. It contends that things just are the way they are. If that is the case, there is nothing to explain.

Elliot Sober weighs in on this question of fine-tuning arguments in philosophy of physics. His argument does not make the move of the necessity approach. We don’t need to assume anything about the ultimate form of the laws of nature. We can take them as they are. We can also grant that the universal laws could be of a different form and that the constants could be of a different value. We will allow all of this to be contingent—that is, not necessary.

If all of this could have been otherwise, but turned out to be as it is, then it seems we need an explanation. However, Sober argues that is not the case. Just because something highly improbable occurs does not mean that it was designed. Improbable things accidentally happen all the time. The key is to look at them from the proper direction.

For instance, imagine a lottery: If the lottery sells 250,000
tickets, the odds of winning are very tiny. As such, it is more than unlikely that any given person will win.
However, it is certain that. someone will win.

Sober argues that the fine-tuning argument makes the mistake. of looking from the wrong direction. We are holding the winning. lottery ticket. We are in a universe that supports life.



Source credit- Professor S. Gimbel, Gettysburg College
 
Isn't that like The Tao of Physics? :)

https://lifeclub.org/books/the-tao-of-physics-fritjof-capra-review-summary
In this summary of The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra, you’ll learn

  • what sort of paradoxes are found in both quantum physics and Eastern religions;
  • how particles and waves can be seen as a parallel to yin and yang; and
  • why there is no space without time, and no time without space.

One thing I like about physics, is that it is the one branch of natural science which really lends itself to the deepest philosophical and metaphysical questions.
 
One thing I like about physics, is that it is the one branch of natural science which really lends itself to the deepest philosophical and metaphysical questions.

An Old Zen Master is in New York City. He goes to a hot dog vender and says "Make me One with everything".
yinyang.gif
 
Perhaps the metaphysical question that has garnered the most interest in intellectual history concerns the existence
of God. Arguments for and against the existence of a creator. come in several types. The laws of physics have been used on. both sides of the debate.


In the 1700s, some figures, like Baron d’Holbach, contended that the system of the universe Isaac Newton gave us leads directly to the lack of a need for any sort of divinity at all. In his masterwork The System of Nature, d’Holbach dismisses philosophers who thought that God was necessary to explain the continual motion of the heavens.

Late-20th-century physics brought the argument back to life. The Standard Model is our best account of the laws governing everything except gravitation. The general theory of relativity. accounts for that. All of these equations have constants within. them—that is, terms that have to be included in the equations to. make the units come out right.

Physicist Robert Dicke pointed out in his article “Dirac’s
Cosmology and Mach’s Principle” that we can arithmetically. combine these constants to give rise to dimensionless. numbers—that is, we can multiply and divide these constants in. combinations that make all the units cancel out. Numbers that. should have nothing to do with each other—things like the age. of the universe, the mass of the proton, and the gravitational. constant—seem to be intricately related when properly. multiplied and divided by each other. That is strange.

Physicist Martin Rees has argued that it seems to be the result of. the fine-tuning of the universe. If these constants were slightly. different in numerical value, the result would be a universe completely incapable of giving rise to life. Richard Swinburn, a professor, contends that the facts arising from contemporary physics show an interrelation and a sensitivity that cannot but. resurrect the teleological argument: The intricacy of the universe implies the existence of an intelligent creator God.

The contingency approach to denying design takes a different line, arguing that there is not actually anything here that needs. explaining. It contends that things just are the way they are. If that is the case, there is nothing to explain.

Elliot Sober weighs in on this question of fine-tuning arguments in philosophy of physics. His argument does not make the move of the necessity approach. We don’t need to assume anything about the ultimate form of the laws of nature. We can take them as they are. We can also grant that the universal laws could be of a different form and that the constants could be of a different value. We will allow all of this to be contingent—that is, not necessary.

If all of this could have been otherwise, but turned out to be as it is, then it seems we need an explanation. However, Sober argues that is not the case. Just because something highly improbable occurs does not mean that it was designed. Improbable things accidentally happen all the time. The key is to look at them from the proper direction.

For instance, imagine a lottery: If the lottery sells 250,000
tickets, the odds of winning are very tiny. As such, it is more than unlikely that any given person will win.
However, it is certain that. someone will win.

Sober argues that the fine-tuning argument makes the mistake. of looking from the wrong direction. We are holding the winning. lottery ticket. We are in a universe that supports life.



Source credit- Professor S. Gimbel, Gettysburg College

The find tuning argument is not convincing.
 
Why do you think so?

It requires that life on this planet is something special and unique. The reasoning is backwards, or deductive. Because of the uniqueness of life on our planet it could only have happened if conditions of the universe in some sense deliberately planned for it.
 
It requires that life on this planet is something special and unique. The reasoning is backwards, or deductive. Because of the uniqueness of life on our planet it could only have happened if conditions of the universe in some sense deliberately planned for it.

That's not what I read. What I read was this "We are in a universe that supports life." We just happen to have a "winning" Lotto ticket to be on one of the planets that nurtures life.
 
The find tuning argument is not convincing.

I am not even sure science is equipped to answer the deepest metaphysical questions.

Science uses inductive reasoning to answer the question "how?", but I do not believe it is equipped to answer the question "why?".

Even so, the standard model, quantum mechanics, and cosmology prompt us to ponder the deepest philosophical questions in a way that no other branch of natural sciences can. IMO
 
I am not even sure science is equipped to answer the deepest metaphysical questions.

Science uses inductive reasoning to answer the question "how?", but I do not believe it is equipped to answer the question "why?".

Even so, the standard model, quantum mechanics, and cosmology prompt us to ponder the deepest philosophical questions in a way that no other branch of natural sciences can. IMO


Okay.
 
That is not the fine tuning argument.
You are reading too much of what you want to read into your perceptions.

The idea presented in the article states as quoted in my post. Both the article and the "fine-tuning argument" are saying the same thing: "We are in a universe that supports life." If the multiverse theory proves out, then, like the Lotto, there will be a lot of dead universes among the few that support life.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-tuned_universe
The characterization of the universe as finely tuned suggests that the occurrence of life in the Universe is very sensitive to the values of certain fundamental physical constants and that the observed values are, for some reason, improbable.[1] If the values of any of certain free parameters in contemporary physical theories had differed only slightly from those observed, the evolution of the Universe would have proceeded very differently and life as it is understood may not have been possible.
 
You are reading too much of what you want to read into your perceptions.

The idea presented in the article states as quoted in my post. Both the article and the "fine-tuning argument" are saying the same thing: "We are in a universe that supports life." If the multiverse theory proves out, then, like the Lotto, there will be a lot of dead universes among the few that support life.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-tuned_universe
The characterization of the universe as finely tuned suggests that the occurrence of life in the Universe is very sensitive to the values of certain fundamental physical constants and that the observed values are, for some reason, improbable.[1] If the values of any of certain free parameters in contemporary physical theories had differed only slightly from those observed, the evolution of the Universe would have proceeded very differently and life as it is understood may not have been possible.

You are reading too little into it. Please don't be insulting--I don't need to read your comments. Ok?
 
Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle
...occurrence of life in the Universe is very sensitive to the values of certain fundamental physical constants

It is opined that all the things that are part of "the Good Life", came into being by evolution.

So after so much evolution we have beauty, pleasure, recreation, amusements, holidays and planes and bling etc.

BUT LISTEN NOW TO THIS HA-RE KRISHNA DUDE....

The physics of the Universe is to provide a place to accommodate the soul's search for the supreme Persona.

The physics of God is "His Own Persona"

We call it "Absolute Truth"

The summon bonum of all is known as the "Absolute Truth"

The "Absolute Truth" is a Persona. The originating wellspring of Persona.

The sojourn of the soul is to re-connect [re-ligio; yoga (yoke, re-link)] to the "Absolute Truth".

So the sojourn of the soul in the phantasmagorical material cosmos [aka 'Maya']
is transient and and last for only a blink of an eye
...upon returning home back to Godhead's association.

Maya is real but temporary and repetitively alluring.
 
You are reading too little into it. Please don't be insulting--I don't need to read your comments. Ok?

Then keep acting like a disgruntled teenager and claim you have me on ignore. That's all you have now since you obviously don't know shit about what this thread is about.
 
The fine tuning argument is a theological rationalization that it is impossible for the universe to produce life without some intention for it to be that way. There is more to it, but not all that much.
 
The physics of God is "His Own Persona"

We call it "Absolute Truth"

The summon bonum of all is known as the "Absolute Truth"

The "Absolute Truth" is a Persona. The originating wellspring of Persona.

The "supreme personality of Godhead's personage is that He is the
Richest, strongest, smartest, most attractive, most famous, and most renounced.

These opulences [hence, the name/title "Bhagavan" ---full in all opulences] are personal qualities.

whilst the 'materialists' claim that such personal qualities are a by-product of evolution...

But the Hindu orthodox devotee knows Krishna as Godhead the wellspring of all personality.

We are spirit souls in the material world.


Outside the material world is "Spiritual Sky" where everything is composed of Sat-cit-ananda.

The soul is composed of Sat-cit-ananda.

There is an economy in the spiritual kingdom of Godhead and that economy is
inter-personal reciprocal exchanges of loving pastimes with Godhead via five "rasas":
neutrality; servitude; fraternal; parental and matrimonial
---all being based on choice of personal "rasa" [mellow] sought.
 
Perhaps the metaphysical question that has garnered the most interest in intellectual history concerns the existence
of God. Arguments for and against the existence of a creator. come in several types. The laws of physics have been used on. both sides of the debate.


In the 1700s, some figures, like Baron d’Holbach, contended that the system of the universe Isaac Newton gave us leads directly to the lack of a need for any sort of divinity at all. In his masterwork The System of Nature, d’Holbach dismisses philosophers who thought that God was necessary to explain the continual motion of the heavens.

Late-20th-century physics brought the argument back to life. The Standard Model is our best account of the laws governing everything except gravitation. The general theory of relativity. accounts for that. All of these equations have constants within. them—that is, terms that have to be included in the equations to. make the units come out right.

Physicist Robert Dicke pointed out in his article “Dirac’s
Cosmology and Mach’s Principle” that we can arithmetically. combine these constants to give rise to dimensionless. numbers—that is, we can multiply and divide these constants in. combinations that make all the units cancel out. Numbers that. should have nothing to do with each other—things like the age. of the universe, the mass of the proton, and the gravitational. constant—seem to be intricately related when properly. multiplied and divided by each other. That is strange.

Physicist Martin Rees has argued that it seems to be the result of. the fine-tuning of the universe. If these constants were slightly. different in numerical value, the result would be a universe completely incapable of giving rise to life. Richard Swinburn, a professor, contends that the facts arising from contemporary physics show an interrelation and a sensitivity that cannot but. resurrect the teleological argument: The intricacy of the universe implies the existence of an intelligent creator God.

The contingency approach to denying design takes a different line, arguing that there is not actually anything here that needs. explaining. It contends that things just are the way they are. If that is the case, there is nothing to explain.

Elliot Sober weighs in on this question of fine-tuning arguments in philosophy of physics. His argument does not make the move of the necessity approach. We don’t need to assume anything about the ultimate form of the laws of nature. We can take them as they are. We can also grant that the universal laws could be of a different form and that the constants could be of a different value. We will allow all of this to be contingent—that is, not necessary.

If all of this could have been otherwise, but turned out to be as it is, then it seems we need an explanation. However, Sober argues that is not the case. Just because something highly improbable occurs does not mean that it was designed. Improbable things accidentally happen all the time. The key is to look at them from the proper direction.

For instance, imagine a lottery: If the lottery sells 250,000
tickets, the odds of winning are very tiny. As such, it is more than unlikely that any given person will win.
However, it is certain that. someone will win.

Sober argues that the fine-tuning argument makes the mistake. of looking from the wrong direction. We are holding the winning. lottery ticket. We are in a universe that supports life.



Source credit- Professor S. Gimbel, Gettysburg College

One small idea, tradition has it everyone uses relative time table logistics based upon intellectual latitude and longitude of the Earth's surface set to calculate relative position on a rotating planet orbited by a moon, both revolving aorund a star as the solar system spirals in its arm of the galaxy. Cycles within cycles compounding a total sum of all events simultaneously present.

Kind of needs a system to insulate and isolate specific points of timed apart so far, correct? Ooh, vocabulary, grammar, punctuation, intergers, mathematics, history all conditioning a brain away from navigating as one of a kind into socially organizing a population to one mentality. eternal conflicting interpretations arise. people gravitate to false expectations and start categorizing levels of obedience to ideas like alpha, beta, omega, cast-a-ways that just don't obey the rules of pretend.

Here is the natural situation though, each body has an alpha brain, beta ancestral position, omega part of the current population as timed apart so far. Life in plain sight with no verbal doubt exactly as the population exists in plain sight of all life in this atmosphere. Compared to what has been discovered without possibilities life is anything else, this planet is a real Garden of Eden humans just won't accept now is eternity. Too many raising hell all the time.

What got lost in real time? Honesty about limitations at being timed apart now. Almost everyone does it for their character feeling larger than eternally sorted apart so far.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top