THE QUESTION OF WHETHER ANY GODS EXIST...

Frank Apisa said:
Gimme a break. If you think that...go get your money back from that Masters Degree.

The only place that reported Jesus said that...is John...the least reliable source.

C'mon. If you are going to pretend academics...make it better than that.
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sorry.....I got my degree from a Christian seminary, not from an atheist web site.....if you don't believe that Jesus is God or that he sacrificed himself to save you, then you are as far from what Jesus taught as anyone can be........
 
PostmodernProphet said:
most of what he taught was already covered in Judaism.......what else did you have in mind that is distinct to Christianity....
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If you think Jesus was anything like the god of the Old Testament...you should ask for you Masters Degree money back with interest, PP. Jesus may have said he was not here to change the law...but he did it in almost ever bit of his teaching.

You should know that...being a religious scholar.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
sorry.....I got my degree from a Christian seminary, not from an atheist web site.....if you don't believe that Jesus is God or that he sacrificed himself to save you, then you are as far from what Jesus taught as anyone can be........
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The only place that uses that "the only way to heaven is through" Jesus...is in John. And John...is a fairy tale gospel.

Jesus taught consideration and love...everyone to everyone, PP...even your enemies, not that you have any here.

Your conduct is reprehensible. Your scorn and contempt for your fellow poster...is itself beneath contempt.

I am by no means a Christian anymore...but I am a LOT closer to the teachings of Jesus than you.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
which is why I said you know a lot about nothing....
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You also spoke of the agnostic faith. I mentioned that to you that there is no such thing because I figured they left that out in Seminary.


I believe Jesus is God and that he sacrificed himself to save me...
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Thank you for sharing that guess.

...that is the criteria, is it not?.....
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I'd say that if Jesus were here...he'd wonder how you could miss the real essence of his message.

K?
 
Frank Apisa said:
If you think Jesus was anything like the god of the Old Testament...you should ask for you Masters Degree money back with interest, PP. Jesus may have said he was not here to change the law...but he did it in almost ever bit of his teaching.

You should know that...being a religious scholar.
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perhaps you could give an example of Jesus changing the law, since you believe he did it in almost every bit of his teaching.......show me one of those bits.....
 
Frank Apisa said:
You also spoke of the agnostic faith. I mentioned that to you that there is no such thing because I figured they left that out in Seminary.
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do I need to prove you wrong again?......for the third time, agnostic faith = nothing......you folks are too confused to make up your minds on anything.....



I'd say that if Jesus were here...he'd wonder how you could miss the real essence of his message.
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I have already stated the essence of his message......apparently you missed it......what did you erroneously believe it was?.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
perhaps you could give an example of Jesus changing the law, since you believe he did it in almost every bit of his teaching.......show me one of those bits.....
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Okay...take a look at Old Testament teachings about "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. They are all over the place.

The look at Matthew 5: 37 or so...and see what Jesus teaches.

C'mon, PP. Don't hit me with elementary crap. Put some hard stuff out here if you think you can give me some trouble.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
do I need to prove you wrong again?......for the third time, agnostic faith = nothing......you folks are too confused to make up your minds on anything.....
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Agnosticism is not "faith", PP. Agnosticism is about acknowledging what you do not know...rather than pretending like you are doing.

Anyway...here is my agnosticism. If you have something to say about it...bring it on:

I do not know if gods exist or not;
I see no reason to suspect gods CANNOT EXIST...that the existence of gods is impossible;
I see no reason to suspect that gods MUST EXIST...that gods are needed to explain existence;
I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction...

...so I don't.



I have already stated the essence of his message......apparently you missed it......what did you erroneously believe it was?.....
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Love your god...was his number one.

Love one another...number two.

The seminary cheated you if you didn't learn that.
 
Frank Apisa said:
Okay...take a look at Old Testament teachings about "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. They are all over the place.

The look at Matthew 5: 37 or so...and see what Jesus teaches.

C'mon, PP. Don't hit me with elementary crap. Put some hard stuff out here if you think you can give me some trouble.
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Did you really mean verse 37, if so you certainly put your foot in it....
37 All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

perhaps you meant 38...
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[h] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.
anyone familiar with Christian theology can explain to you that Christ was not teaching "turn the other cheek"........he was giving one of many examples that underscored his message from verse 20...
20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

human obedience is not sufficient to attain righteousness.....if this is what you meant by closest to the teachings of Christ, you have actually totally failed to understand the teachings of Christ....

in summary Chapter 6:13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
you're going to have to do a bit better......the teachings of the Sermon on the Mount was not
 
Frank Apisa said:
Love your god...was his number one.

Love one another...number two.
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that is unchanged from Judaism.....
Deuteronomy 6:5
…4"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one! 5"You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. 6"These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart.…

Leviticus 19:9-18
Leviticus 19:9-18 English Standard Version (ESV)
Love Your Neighbor as Yourself
9 “When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap your field right up to its edge, neither shall you gather the gleanings after your harvest. 10 And you shall not strip your vineyard bare, neither shall you gather the fallen grapes of your vineyard. You shall leave them for the poor and for the sojourner: I am the Lord your God.

11 “You shall not steal; you shall not deal falsely; you shall not lie to one another. 12 You shall not swear by my name falsely, and so profane the name of your God: I am the Lord.

13 “You shall not oppress your neighbor or rob him. The wages of a hired worker shall not remain with you all night until the morning. 14 You shall not curse the deaf or put a stumbling block before the blind, but you shall fear your God: I am the Lord.

15 “You shall do no injustice in court. You shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great, but in righteousness shall you judge your neighbor. 16 You shall not go around as a slanderer among your people, and you shall not stand up against the life[a] of your neighbor: I am the Lord.

17 “You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason frankly with your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him. 18 You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.
looks like they did a pretty good job of teaching after all.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
Did you really mean verse 37, if so you certainly put your foot in it....
37 All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.
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LEARN HOW TO READ. I did not say "verse 37." I was working from memory...and said "37 or so."

So it was 38.

perhaps you meant 38...
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[h] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.
anyone familiar with Christian theology can explain to you that Christ was not teaching "turn the other cheek"........he was giving one of many examples that underscored his message from verse 20...
20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
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So...THAT IS WHAT JOHN says...and John is an unreliable source.

But read the rest of what the message of Jesus was all about...and it has nothing to do with that one point which apparently you seem stuck on.



human obedience is not sufficient to attain righteousness.....if this is what you meant by closest to the teachings of Christ, you have actually totally failed to understand the teachings of Christ....
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Being "righteous" has to do with being a decent person. If you want to think it has to do with what seems to be mythology...fine. Go for it.

in summary Chapter 6:13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
you're going to have to do a bit better......the teachings of the Sermon on the Mount was not
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Yeah. So what?
 
PostmodernProphet said:
that is unchanged from Judaism.....
Deuteronomy 6:5
…4"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one! 5"You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. 6"These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart.…

Leviticus 19:9-18
Leviticus 19:9-18 English Standard Version (ESV)
Love Your Neighbor as Yourself
9 “When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap your field right up to its edge, neither shall you gather the gleanings after your harvest. 10 And you shall not strip your vineyard bare, neither shall you gather the fallen grapes of your vineyard. You shall leave them for the poor and for the sojourner: I am the Lord your God.

11 “You shall not steal; you shall not deal falsely; you shall not lie to one another. 12 You shall not swear by my name falsely, and so profane the name of your God: I am the Lord.

13 “You shall not oppress your neighbor or rob him. The wages of a hired worker shall not remain with you all night until the morning. 14 You shall not curse the deaf or put a stumbling block before the blind, but you shall fear your God: I am the Lord.

15 “You shall do no injustice in court. You shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great, but in righteousness shall you judge your neighbor. 16 You shall not go around as a slanderer among your people, and you shall not stand up against the life[a] of your neighbor: I am the Lord.

17 “You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason frankly with your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him. 18 You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.
looks like they did a pretty good job of teaching after all.....
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Blah, blah, blah.

I can cut and paste passages out of Alice in Wonderland...or the Bible.

Of what use is that?
 
PostmodernProphet said:
it is amusing that I keep agreeing with you, yet you keep arguing with me......
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Why not?

If you were saying that "The Godfather" was not a decent movie...and I said, "I think it was better than decent"...we would be arguing. That would not make Agnosticism "faith."

C'mon, PP. Wake up.
 
Frank Apisa said:
So...THAT IS WHAT JOHN says...and John is an unreliable source.
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dude.....it's from the gospel of Matthew....

But read the rest of what the message of Jesus was all about...and it has nothing to do with that one point which apparently you seem stuck on.
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again, I invite you to tell us what the "rest" of the message of Jesus was......Christianity thinks that "you can only attain righteousness through me" IS the message of Jesus.....

Being "righteous" has to do with being a decent person.
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really?...where in the Bible do you find THAT teaching?.....
 
Frank Apisa said:
Blah, blah, blah.

I can cut and paste passages out of Alice in Wonderland...or the Bible.

Of what use is that?
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its sort of what theology does......you look at what God said to figure out what God said.........where else would you look?......

by the way, I love the way you diverted attention from the fact that what you claimed was directly and word for word discredited.......
 
Frank Apisa said:
Why not?

If you were saying that "The Godfather" was not a decent movie...and I said, "I think it was better than decent"...we would be arguing. That would not make Agnosticism "faith."

C'mon, PP. Wake up.
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wake up to what?......that what I have said is true?......agnostic "faith" is nothing......exactly what we have both stated a combined total of nine times now.....
 
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