THE QUESTION OF WHETHER ANY GODS EXIST...

PostmodernProphet said:
agnostics are afraid to commit to any belief......
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I will speak for me.

I do not know if gods exist or not;
I see no reason to suspect gods CANNOT EXIST...that the existence of gods is impossible;
I see no reason to suspect that gods MUST EXIST...that gods are needed to explain existence;
I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction...

...so I don't.

So, yeah...I do not want to make a blind guess...and hide the fact that my blind guess is a blind guess...by calling it a belief.

No fear involved on my side.

I see a LOT of fear in people like you...who have to hide the fact that you are making a blind guess by calling that blind guess something other than a blind guess.
 
Frank Apisa said:
There is no agnostic faith.
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isn't that what we have now repeated fifteen times?....

But they are your problems!
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I'm not the one having problems realizing we agree that agnostic faith is nothing.....

For theists..."faith" is a way of saying, "I'm sticking with my blind guesses (you call them beliefs)...and that's that."
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no wonder you are confused......you don't understand what faith means......
 
Frank Apisa said:
I will speak for me.

I do not know if gods exist or not;
I see no reason to suspect gods CANNOT EXIST...that the existence of gods is impossible;
I see no reason to suspect that gods MUST EXIST...that gods are needed to explain existence;
I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction...
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thanks for sharing your confusion with us all......
 
The supernatural, the greater, God what ever term you give it is a confusing hypothetical dilemma.

Religions are undoubtedly confusing because of the continual and ongoing information that is reinterpreted, reimagined or exploited if you like. It is every time this occurs that it loses its empowerment, its ability to capture individuals. Take Islam for example, take Christianity as another. Child Molesting and Terrorism are the central points of focus for these two religions and they are leading to a guise embedding itself over the true values of religious doctrine and thus creating disenchantment. This only further draws individuals away from the already confusing concept of God. A concept that can only supported by belief, not fact. The Big Bang however can be supported by both belief and fact creating the first point that distinguishes the reason for our existence.

The notion of "I cannot prove that there is a God" is one that justifies the lack of facts that does prove 'he', 'she' or 'they' exist. There is no proof in Christianity for example, except of an extremely dated book of a number of passages. The integrity of this has to be questioned.

To my understanding of God. It doesn't exist. The closest to God I believe in is an energy, a scientific energy that relates to particles and atoms etc...
 
PostmodernProphet said:
isn't that what we have now repeated fifteen times?....
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Not you, so far.

You are still trying to tell me WHAT the agnostic faith IS.

I'm telling you there is no agnostic faith.


I'm not the one having problems realizing we agree that agnostic faith is nothing.....
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You still don't get it. I'm beginning to wonder if English is your second language.

There is a significant difference between "The agnostic faith is nothing"...and "There is no agnostic faith."

The difference is as significant as the huge difference between, "I do not believe any gods exist"...and "I believe there are no gods."

Some people can get that...some people just are not able.

You apparently are one of the latter. I'm here to help you.



no wonder you are confused......you don't understand what faith means......
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Oh, I understand what it means. Most of the people who use it to disguise what it actually means...are the ones who do not understand it.
 
Frank Apisa said:
Not you, so far.

You are still trying to tell me WHAT the agnostic faith IS.

I'm telling you there is no agnostic faith.




You still don't get it. I'm beginning to wonder if English is your second language.

There is a significant difference between "The agnostic faith is nothing"...and "There is no agnostic faith."

The difference is as significant as the huge difference between, "I do not believe any gods exist"...and "I believe there are no gods."

Some people can get that...some people just are not able.

You apparently are one of the latter. I'm here to help you.





Oh, I understand what it means. Most of the people who use it to disguise what it actually means...are the ones who do not understand it.
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repetitive arguments, please page up for my response.......
 
Frank Apisa said:
There is no confusion for anyone willing to open his/her mind.

Your's is closed tightly, so you think confusion is there.

Open it, PP. There is a world out here for you to discover.
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lol....
I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction...
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you lecture yourself and still believe you aren't confused.....I at least have managed to reach a conclusion about what I believe........
 
PostmodernProphet said:
lol....


you lecture yourself and still believe you aren't confused.........
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I simply do not do "believing."

I at least have managed to reach a conclusion about what I believe....
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I grant that you have managed to reach a conclusion about what you blindly guess about the true nature of the REALITY of existence.

Too bad you have to disguise the fact that it IS a blind guess.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
????....you are uncertain?......I thought you were joking......I am a Christian......
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That is like answering the question, "Where are you from?"...with, "Somewhere."

"Somewhere" is obvious.

"A Christian" is obvious.

But when asked "What is your religion?"...most sane people would answer with the name of a religion.

So...ummm...you are a Christian, right?
 
PostmodernProphet said:
no one is so blind as he who will not see.....
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Yeah, but I can help you overcome that, PP. I mean that seriously...not as a joke.

When you say that you have reached a conclusion about what you "believe" (on this existence of gods question)...you actually ARE saying that you have reached a conclusion about the guess you are making.

People making that guess tend to disguise the fact that it is a guess...by using "believe."

I do not do that. I do not do "believing."

If I were to make a guess about whether gods exist or not...I would call it a guess.
 
Frank Apisa said:
That is like answering the question, "Where are you from?"...with, "Somewhere."

"Somewhere" is obvious.

"A Christian" is obvious.

But when asked "What is your religion?"...most sane people would answer with the name of a religion.

So...ummm...you are a Christian, right?
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yes....was that not obvious.......Christian IS a religion, as is Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish.....
 
Frank Apisa said:
Yeah, but I can help you overcome that, PP. I mean that seriously...not as a joke.

When you say that you have reached a conclusion about what you "believe" (on this existence of gods question)...you actually ARE saying that you have reached a conclusion about the guess you are making.

People making that guess tend to disguise the fact that it is a guess...by using "believe."

I do not do that. I do not do "believing."

If I were to make a guess about whether gods exist or not...I would call it a guess.
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that is what you believe........I do not believe that......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
that is what you believe........I do not believe that......
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I do not do "believing."

I understand that you blindly guess that a god is the cause of existence...and that you want to disguise the fact that it is a blind guess by calling it a "belief."

I expect at some point you will suggest that we all should show respect for your blind guess...because you do call it a belief.
 
Frank Apisa said:
Okay...you are embarrassed to go further. But since you said you got your education in a seminary, I expected you to be more proud of your denomination.

No problem.
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you didn't ask about my denomination......protestant. reformed, of the Calvinist line......that should be sufficient.......nothing to do with pride, more to do with protection from online sleuths, of which we have a number......on a previous board I had someone track down my office and post information about it on the board.........
 
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