The Question that Makes Cowards out of Leftists

IBDaMann said:
I thought we no longer needed to beat that dead horse but if we must continue ... here we go again.

It's the heartbeat that means it's alive. The dummy doesn't have a heartbeat. You don't have to consider it alive.
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Does this mean you support abortion up to six weeks or so? According to doctors the heart "sound" at six weeks isn't actually a heartbeat.

"Rather, at six weeks of pregnancy, an ultrasound can detect "a little flutter in the area that will become the future heart of the baby," said Dr. Saima Aftab, medical director of the Fetal Care Center at Nicklaus Children's Hospital in Miami. This flutter happens because the group of cells that will become the future "pacemaker" of the heart gain the capacity to fire electrical signals, she said.

But the heart is far from fully formed at this stage, and the "beat" isn't audible; if doctors put a stethoscope up to a woman's belly this early on in her pregnancy, they would not hear a heartbeat, Aftab told Live Science. It's been only in the last few decades that doctors have even been able to detect this flutter at six weeks, thanks to the use of more-sophisticated ultrasound technologies, Aftab said. Previously, the technology wasn't advanced enough to detect the flutter that early on in pregnancy.

Although a lot of weight seems to be put on the detection of this flutter, "by no means does it translate to viability of the heart" or viability of the pregnancy, Aftab said. The heart still has a lot of development to undergo before it is fully formed. Indeed, the entire first trimester of pregnancy is a time of "organogenesis," or the formation of organs, Aftab said.

After the detection of the flutter at six weeks, the heart muscle continues to develop over the next four to six weeks, undergoing the folding and bending that needs to happen for the heart to take its final shape, Aftab said.

"A lot of the heart development is still ongoing" during the first trimester, she said."

https://www.livescience.com/65501-fetal-heartbeat-at-6-weeks-explained.html
 
Penderyn said:
What brilliance! An Einstein amongst nazi propagandists! :)
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Thanks for making my point. Prove I'm a Nazi you idiot. Your like the other ducking pinhead you make claims then run,like a birch. I bet you don't even know what a fucking Nazi is. You're a leftist public school educated moron
 
Yakuda said:
Thanks for making my point. Prove I'm a Nazi you idiot. Your like the other ducking pinhead you make claims then run,like a birch. I bet you don't even know what a fucking Nazi is. You're a leftist public school educated moron
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My Father was, apparently, on a Hitler death list, so I have some notion, indeed - they were people like you who, when they lacked the means to murder people, screamed meaningless insults instead. and used any tedious old shit to save capitalism. Trumpers, in fact.
 
Penderyn said:
My Father was, apparently, on a Hitler death list, so I have some notion, indeed - they were people like you who, when they lacked the means to murder people, screamed meaningless insults instead. and used any tedious old shit to save capitalism. Trumpers, in fact.
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I don't give a shit about Hitler or your father. Prove I am a Nazi you pos
 
Yakuda said:
Prove I don't give a shit about people. You assholes just say shit and you think it's true. Prove im a Nazi and don't care about people.
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You sound like a nazi and you smell like a nazi, and you support Trumpf. Do you want me to prove you were hanged at Nuremburg, or what?
 
christiefan915 said:
Does this mean you support abortion up to six weeks or so?
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This question is problematic. How do you define "abortion"? Does it involve the killing of a living human who has committed no crime and who has not expressed any desire to die?

christiefan915 said:
According to doctors the heart "sound" at six weeks isn't actually a heartbeat.
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If there is no heartbeat yet then one can argue that there is no living human yet.

My concerns specifically entail a living human ... which requires a heartbeat. (Note: I'm not talking about a temporary cessation of the heartbeat, i.e. I claim that it is not right to kill someone who is having a heart attack). I don't want to sound obtruse but it is important to ensure correct words are used. I also don't want to leave you hanging without some sort of answer so the best response I can give is that abortion up until a heartbeat is simply not being addressed here.

For the sake of this topic, yes, the heartbeat is the dividing line between "killing a living human" and "there's nothing to see here". If that happens to be exactly at "six weeks" then great. If there is a heartbeat one day prior then we have a living human one day before the six-week point.

Let's pick the world's top cardiologist and make him/her the arbiter of when there is officially a heartbeat ... and then use that definition. It probably won't be an amount of time, e.g. "six weeks" but rather a function of something biological/anatomical. Of course, this will change and become more refined as medical science changes over time.

christiefan915 said:
But the heart is far from fully formed at this stage,
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Whether the heart is fully formed is irrelevant. No human who suffers from a non-fully formed heart (heart defect) should be able to be killed or considered "not living" because his heart is not fully formed. If the heart is beating and causing blood to flow then there is a heartbeat. If the heart is forming and spasms somehow before starting to "beat" for the flowing ov blood then it isn't a heartbeat. In any event, I would prefer to leave all of these determinations to a cardiologist ... and not politicians ... and not to any political organization disguised as a medical organization.

slow-fetal-heart-rate-first-trimester-2371254_v2-f380ae185b9a49b68e08f43af3d9e228.png


Illustration-of-a-healthy-heart-and-one-with-heart-failure.png


Blausen_0463_HeartAttack.png
 
Concart said:
Yes, he's a troll. The answer to his question is that I don't approve of taking a human life for the sake of the convenience of a third person. Now, I'll make my points.

1. I reject the premise that human life begins at conception.
2. I believe that control of ones body is right protected by the Constitution. That's why a law requiring you to donate a kidney, a liver, or some other organ or body part would most certainly be unconstitutional, even though in not doing so you may be condemning an actual living person to death because it is 'inconvenient' for you to donate.
3. The position taken by the poster is almost certainly hypocritical, my guess is that this person would make exceptions in the case of rape or incest, or does not oppose invitro fertilization, IUDs or the morning after pill.

But those are topics for a serious poster to discuss, and he is not. Which is why he is now on ignore.
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1. When does human life begin? Why is this? What science do you have to support this?

2. So I take it that you are also against the various mask wearing mandates that States/Counties/Cities across the country have implemented?

But to dive further into your point here, abortion is not an issue of "exercising control over one's body"... That control is exercised the very moment that the woman made the decision to spread her legs...

3. I can't speak for him, but for myself, I do not make exceptions for rape/incest. My only exception is in the very rare case where the life of the mother is at risk. I'm not the biggest fan of those other methods/pills either. I prefer to not mess with nature (or in Christian terminology, the attempt to "know better than God").
 
There are too many trolls this year. Seems to have grown, not sure why. But the questions are formed in a way that is the usual exculpatory nonsense as it pretends there is care on the side of the so called pro life, but there is none as they prove almost daily. Think of healthcare for all as one example. Hypocrisy at its best.

"Abolition of a woman's right to abortion, when and if she wants it, amounts to compulsory maternity: a form of rape by the State." Edward Abbey

Let me repeat: Abortion is the hypocrite's crutch, a child dies every few seconds in the world and even in America of preventable healthcare issues and never ever do you hear abortion foes talk of helping the living born conscious human being. It is only this moral outrage over abortion that gets notice for it requires nothing of the moralist except judgment and condemnation of the other. Consider too the misogyny and racism so evident in America during the last President and 2016 election and you must wonder why this love of children does not extend into love of all people? How hard it is to to fund help for the needy in America, CHIP was an example, or universal healthcare, and you soon realize abortion like guns is only a wedge issue used to manage the mind of the easily persuaded. Religion, and especially evangelical religion in America has come to be about political power and money and no longer has anything to do with morality, you know simply doing good for your neighbor.

"Diarrhoea is a leading killer of children, accounting for 9 per cent of all deaths among children under age 5 worldwide in 2015. This translates to over 1,400 young children dying each day, or about 526,000 children a year, despite the availability of simple effective treatment."

https://data.unicef.org/topic/child-health/diarrhoeal-disease/


http://harpers.org/archive/1987/10/we-do-abortions-here-a-nurses-story/


"For some reason, the most vocal Christians among us never mention the Beatitudes (Matthew 5). But, often with tears in their eyes, they demand that the Ten Commandments be posted in public buildings. And of course, that's Moses, not Jesus. I haven't heard one of them demand that the Sermon on the Mount, the Beatitudes, be posted anywhere. "Blessed are the merciful" in a courtroom? "Blessed are the peacemakers" in the Pentagon? Give me a break!" Kurt Vonnegut
 
IBDaMann said:
This question is problematic. How do you define "abortion"? Does it involve the killing of a living human who has committed no crime and who has not expressed any desire to die? ]
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Human life has always been counted from birth. The question is, do you support the enslavement of women, which is the present alternative. Meanwhile, work for a society decent enough for unplanned children to live in: your current one stinks of abuse.
 
Penderyn said:
You've hidden your party card up your enormous arse: far be it from me to explore such trumnp-like areas! :)
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So you can't prove in a Nazi but continue to refer to me as Nazi. This is precisely why leftists are brain dead idiots. You have no valid arguments so all that remains are labels and your mind numbing stupidity
 
Penderyn said:
Human life has always been counted from birth. The question is, do you support the enslavement of women, which is the present alternative. Meanwhile, work for a society decent enough for unplanned children to live in: your current one stinks of abuse.
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You have to be a massive idiot to use "enslavement" in this context but you're a leftist with a non functioning brain so can only repeat what they put in your head.
 
Yakuda said:
So you can't prove in a Nazi but continue to refer to me as Nazi. This is precisely why leftists are brain dead idiots. You have no valid arguments so all that remains are labels and your mind numbing stupidity
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Prove he's a brain dead idiot. I dare you.

ROTFLFMAO!!!! Your hypocrisy is laughable.
 
Concart said:
Prove he's a brain dead idiot. I dare you.

ROTFLFMAO!!!! Your hypocrisy is laughable.
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Well a good way to prove it is he has called me a Nazi and hasn't provided a shred of evidence for it. Now he might have proof I am a Nazi but hasn't shown it. That would would make him incompetent. Then again, and more likely, he might not have any proof I am a Nazi but just says i am a Nazi. That would make him an idiot at best or a complete and utter duplicitous POS at worse. I thought I'd go with giving him the benefit of the doubt.
 
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