The Question that Makes Cowards out of Leftists

StoneByStone said:
The Nazis didn't. Most companies in Nazi Germany were private.
The Bolsheviks did, but without collective ownership, that's just State Capitalism. You could say State Capitalism isn't real Capitalism, I think that's a fair argument, but it definitely isn't Socialism.
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Sure, but Nazis micromanaged bigger businesses through the Council of Trust & the German Labour Front.
 
IBDaMann said:
Fascists are leftists. Rightists are Libertarians.



Except in Venezuela! Too funny.

Venezuelans brought it upon themselves.
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Europe considers Nationalists & Social Conservatives to be the Right-Wing, which is actually the proper definition.

The first Leftists were for Democracy & Capitalism in the French Revolution, while the first Right-Wingers were for Monarchy & Theocracy in the French Revolution.

Are hicks good for anything? All you do is botch definitions & kill people!
 
IBDaMann said:
Racism pertains to State power and unequal treatment based on race.
Bigotry is the emotion that occurs in any particular individual(s).

A State or government can be racist but the hater who shouts "Nigger!" is a bigot. If you think Trump's comments about a Mexican judge are inappropriate then you can correctly refer to him as a bigot but it would be incorrect to say that his comment somehow transforms the State's laws and policies into racist ones.


I disagree. I imagine no rational adult would fault Trump for calling for a judge who has been unfair to Trump in the past to recuse himself, especially considering that Trump is trying to build a wall between the US and the country of Mexico and the judge has made a point of expressing his "pride" in his Mexican heritage.

Any judge must maintain the appearance of impatiality and this judge could not, and has been unfair ... Trump was right to call for his recusal.

Where do you get bigotry in all that?


Nope. That would be a "commonwealth."

Socialism involves various things but the core idea is "central planning" which means an authoritarian dictatorship, e.g. NAZI Germany.


No. Absurd. All of Germany fell under Herman Goering, Germany's Economy Czar. Read up on the Four Year Plan. All of the German economy was put under Goering's complete control. Hitler needed to be sure Germany was properly configured to successfully persist in conducting a major war.


You are egregiously mistaken.


Marxists use the word "democratic" as a euphamism for "Marxist." They know that all people find the word "democracy" to be at least palatable whereas most reject anything with the word "Marxism." North Korea is not the only Marxist country by any means to substitute the word "Democratic" into the name. Marxists routinely swap the word "democracy" in for "Marxism" in their sentences when discussing politics and ideologies, e.g. "Yes, it's absolutely critical that we teach our children the importance of democracy and of appreciating labor which is why we need to tax the top 1% out of existence."


You are wrong.


I already explained this to you. In that context, they were referring to "communism" which was their mortal enemy.

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Racism by definition is to think one race is superior over another, or prejudices & discrimination against another race, or defining race by characteristics.

Bigotry by definition means to be intolerant of someone elses opinion or beliefs.
 
StoneByStone said:
Do you really believe that or are you trolling?
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There's no reason to define Libertarian as Right-Left wing politics.

The scales should be Libertarian - Authoritarian.

Right for tradition & hierachy, and Left against tradition & hierachy.

It's oafish to consider Libertarian Right-Wing, because it leads to freedom for everything on the Left, be it freedom for immigrants, outsourcing, loose border security, LGBTQ bars. Freedom for Pornography, degenerate Rap music, Hollywood smutty shoot 'em up films, Leftist media, Leftist Social media, Strip clubs, Leftist private colleges, and yada yada.

Libertarian should if anything be classified as the Far-Left!
 
StoneByStone said:
How come you won't reply to my list of Fascist countries that didn't claim to be Socialist?
Francoist Spain, Austria under the Fatherland Front, Fascist Italy, the Empire of Japan, and the modern incarnations of Russia, Belarus, Cambodia, Hungary, Saudi Arabia, and Iran.



Well, yeah. Social Democracy allows for private property and doesn't want Anarchy. Those are some pretty big differences, are they not?



Um..... yeah.... not sure what to do with all that craziness.

So anyway, Limbaugh is against equal rights for women, gays, and trannies. So I'm not a fan of that.
I do agree that some people take LGBT rights too far. A private company should be allowed to deny service or fire someone for any reason, including sexual orientation. So I would support Limbaugh's right to not hire gay people. However, I still disagree with his homophobia.




Actually, the Left wanted exactly what you said your position is. All we wanted was the government to recognize same-sex marriage as a valid form of marriage. And they did, so we've moved on from that issue.



How so?



Here are some things I disagree with Limbaugh on.

He's against welfare policies, blaming the "welfare state" for various problems.
He thinks the drug laws are too lenient. I believe the drug war should end, all drugs should be legal.
He's very pro-war, even supporting the Iraq War. He also supported the torture used by the Bush admin.
He's against environmental regulations and denies climate change is real, because of course he does.
He thinks consent shouldn't be taken seriously, which essentially means he thinks rape is ok.
He supports Trump, even defending him during the Ukraine scandal, which to me was the worst thing Trump has done.

I'm sure there are plenty of other things. But yeah, not a fan. He is unintentionally funny sometimes when he gets mad and spergs out, so at least there's that.



No, the reason he isn't the nominee is because both parties are owned by big business. The DNC is less terrible, no doubt, but neither party puts the working-class first.
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A lot of Eastern Europe is definitely heading towards Authoritarianism as we speak, and that's actually a good thing.

You don't solve your culture, with Libertarianism!

I don't necessarily think Authoritarianism is so bad.

George W. Bush probably killed more in Iraq & Afghanistan, than Mussolini had in Ethiopia & Greece!

Besides, Germans in WW1 killed a lot too, and they were a Liberal Capitalist country during WW1, as they gased soldiers with mustard gas.

I think, some groups are just more violent, not a heck of a lot to do with policy. (Although policy might play some role)
 
IBDaMann said:
Racism pertains to State power and unequal treatment based on race.
Bigotry is the emotion that occurs in any particular individual(s).

A State or government can be racist but the hater who shouts "Nigger!" is a bigot. If you think Trump's comments about a Mexican judge are inappropriate then you can correctly refer to him as a bigot but it would be incorrect to say that his comment somehow transforms the State's laws and policies into racist ones.


I disagree. I imagine no rational adult would fault Trump for calling for a judge who has been unfair to Trump in the past to recuse himself, especially considering that Trump is trying to build a wall between the US and the country of Mexico and the judge has made a point of expressing his "pride" in his Mexican heritage.

Any judge must maintain the appearance of impatiality and this judge could not, and has been unfair ... Trump was right to call for his recusal.

Where do you get bigotry in all that?


Nope. That would be a "commonwealth."

Socialism involves various things but the core idea is "central planning" which means an authoritarian dictatorship, e.g. NAZI Germany.


No. Absurd. All of Germany fell under Herman Goering, Germany's Economy Czar. Read up on the Four Year Plan. All of the German economy was put under Goering's complete control. Hitler needed to be sure Germany was properly configured to successfully persist in conducting a major war.


You are egregiously mistaken.


Marxists use the word "democratic" as a euphamism for "Marxist." They know that all people find the word "democracy" to be at least palatable whereas most reject anything with the word "Marxism." North Korea is not the only Marxist country by any means to substitute the word "Democratic" into the name. Marxists routinely swap the word "democracy" in for "Marxism" in their sentences when discussing politics and ideologies, e.g. "Yes, it's absolutely critical that we teach our children the importance of democracy and of appreciating labor which is why we need to tax the top 1% out of existence."


You are wrong.


I already explained this to you. In that context, they were referring to "communism" which was their mortal enemy.

us%7Daca1.gif
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By your logic, most of the champion economies in the past 100 years have been somewhat Socialist, according to your definition.

FDR achieved the fastest economic growth in the 20th Century USA history & his war time economy was definitely some what central planned.

National Socialist Germany achieved even faster economic growth than FDR of the USA had, and they were more central planned than FDR.

Franco's Spain in the Spanish Miracle achieved the 2nd fastest economic growth period in the 20th century and was some what central planned too.

Japan after WW2, in the Japanese economic miracle achieved the #1 fastest economic growth period in the 20th century, and was some what central planned too.

Modern China since 1990, has been perhaps the most miraculous, going from poorer than Africa in 1973, to a potential #1 power house, after achieving multiple decades of fast paced growth for such a huge country of such population & land area!
 
WitoldPilecki said:
A lot of Eastern Europe is definitely heading towards Authoritarianism as we speak, and that's actually a good thing.

You don't solve your culture, with Libertarianism!

I don't necessarily think Authoritarianism is so bad.
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It depends who is in power. That's the problem with Authoritarianism. Even if you're lucky enough to get a benevolent dictator, the next guy might be a mass murderer.
And Authoritarianism isn't just a Dictatorship, it's also strict laws at the expense of common civil liberties. Would you really want to live in a country with no freedom of speech? What if you end up with a Stalin in power?

I think, some groups are just more violent, not a heck of a lot to do with policy. (Although policy might play some role)
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Maybe, but at least with checks and balances, we could keep them in line.
 
StoneByStone said:
It depends who is in power. That's the problem with Authoritarianism. Even if you're lucky enough to get a benevolent dictator, the next guy might be a mass murderer.
And Authoritarianism isn't just a Dictatorship, it's also strict laws at the expense of common civil liberties. Would you really want to live in a country with no freedom of speech? What if you end up with a Stalin in power?



Maybe, but at least with checks and balances, we could keep them in line.
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Poland had some strongman, like King Jan III Sobieski he killed the right people for the right reasons at Vienna in 1683 against Islamic intruders upon Catholic Europe, or Jozef Pilsudski in the Polish - Soviet war 1919 - 1920! The same applies to Jozef Beck's Poland, shared much in common Nazis, having boycotted Jewish goods, and applied stripping Jews from positions of power like lawyers, doctors or government jobs, and had Ghetto Benches, a segregation. Meanwhile, Jozef Beck's Poland went onto to be the first to fight Nazi Germany & splintered into Armia Krajowa the largest anti-Nazi resistance in occupied Europe, not to mention Zegota & the largest number of Jewish rescuers the Righteous Among the Nations.

Hungary's strongman Horthy had similar, Hungary dragged it's feet against Hitler's Holocaust, it's a bit of a manipulation to just call Hungary an Axis power, they also tried to make deals with the Allies, because Hitler was too extreme.

Actually, Ukrainians out of Anarchy in WW2 did far worse, in the masscres of Wolyn & Eastern Galicia, 100,000 Poles were killed, they burned Polish villages, hacked Poles with hack saws, axes, machetes etc.

Meanwhile, this was done out of basic Anarchy, there was no true Ukraine government, but rather Bandera's angry villagers & militias butchering Poles.

But, then again this is nothing new that Ukrainians were more murderous than Poles & Hungarians.

Look at the Massacre of Uman, or the Khmelnytsky Uprising, to mention all the Pogroms Ukrainians against Jews during the Russian Civil War.
 
StoneByStone said:
Very rarely. Most of the businesses were just given a few regulations and then left alone.
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I'm not so sure of that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Trust

Councils of Trust (German: Vertrauensräte) were established in businesses and companies with more than 20 employees in Nazi Germany following the introduction of the Labour organization law of 20 January 1934. They served as the only representation of employees to the “factory leader” (i.e. entrepreneur) (Betriebsführer) in order to increase mutual trust within the factory community.[1] Councillors were elected by secret ballots, but the list of candidates was prepared by the factory leader and the German Labour Front overseer (Betriebsobmann). The councils did not play an active role in industrial relations, except to serve as a platform for discussing working conditions regulated in the “factory code of rules” (Betriebsordnung).[2]

While in 1934 only 2 per cent of businesses and companies were required to establish a council of trust, this affected 46.2 per cent of employees.[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Labour_Front

Its leader was Robert Ley, who stated that its aim was 'to create a true social and productive community'.[1] Theoretically, the DAF existed to act as a medium through which workers and owners could mutually represent their interests. Wages were set by the 12 DAF trustees. The employees were given relatively high set wages and security of employment, and dismissal was increasingly made difficult. Social security and leisure programmes were started, canteens, breaks, and regular working times were established, and German workers were generally satisfied by what the DAF gave them in repayment for their absolute loyalty and increased work hours (Due to armaments production).[citation needed]

Following the National Socialist’s Volksgemeinschaft approach towards developing a greater "people's community", the DAF expanded or established new social, educational, sports, health, and entertainment programs for German workers via the Strength through Joy, which included factory libraries and gardens, swimming pools, low-priced hot meals, adult education programs, periodic work breaks, physical education, sports facilities, gymnastic training, orchestral music during lunch breaks, free tickets to concerts and opera, and subsidized vacations that saw over 10.3 million Germans signed up by 1938.[2] The DAF financed the building of ocean-going vessels that permitted German workers to pay minimal prices to sail to many foreign destinations. Up to six ocean liners were operating just before the start of World War II. According to the chief of the Associated Press in Berlin, Louis P. Lochner, ticket prices for ocean steamer vessels ranged from twelve to sixteen marks for "a full week on such a steamer".[3]
 
WitoldPilecki said:
The problem is it impacts kids, negatively, and they grow up to be idiots who loot & shoot in the streets as BLM & ANTIFA rioters!
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If that was the case, then Europe would have way more crime. Certainly more than America.
The riots we're seeing now is just the result of Multiculturalism.
 
WitoldPilecki said:
Europe considers Nationalists & Social Conservatives to be the Right-Wing, which is actually the proper definition.
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Nope. Europeans are mostly in denial. Hitler was a socialist and squarely on the left. Europe LOVES their socialism ... and so they tell all the gullible Europeans that the NAZIs were actually on the right. That's mostly why Europe is so fucked up, i.e. Europeans are stupid and gullible and will believe whatever they are told.

The NAZIs were on the left, just like Europe is. That is the correct understanding just as sure as Poland took only four weeks to roll over and die.

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