The Real Reason the Democrats Will Lose in November

Not my statement, Roves.

I would like to hear that the guy fell into a bottomless pit.

What statement? You are the one that keeps talking about Rove. I don't care that he is working on the Republican campaign. There are better people that will be involved, which was my point in the first place. You are the one seemingly obsessed with talking about Rove. Do you need me to hold your hand like a child and say "Yes honey, Karl Rove is a bad, bad man" for you to move on to what I am actually talking about? Are you that starved for validation?
 
It seems to me you must not pay attention to politics at all. Hillary is not going to get into the White House, and, while the Democrats continue to bicker, the Republican base only strengthens.
Yes and all that bickering is just going to help McCain all the way to November. Is that what you really think? That the dems will remain divided in to november? The choice is between a guy that is going to continue the war just as it is, and 72% of the people don't want to continue, and a guy that is going to do all he can to continue the slow errosion of civil liberties. The Republican Party has become the party of Big Brother. The dems need to drive that home. The right is all about big intrusive government. It is NOT the party of Reagan or even better Goldwater anymore.
 
Yes and all that bickering is just going to help McCain all the way to November. Is that what you really think? That the dems will remain divided in to november? The choice is between a guy that is going to continue the war just as it is, and 72% of the people don't want to continue, and a guy that is going to do all he can to continue the slow errosion of civil liberties. The Republican Party has become the party of Big Brother. The dems need to drive that home. The right is all about big intrusive government. It is NOT the party of Reagan or even better Goldwater anymore.

I never said it was. However, the Democratic Party is much too fragmented these days to survive the Hillary/Obama tension, in my opinion.
 
It seems to me you must not pay attention to politics at all. Hillary is not going to get into the White House, and, while the Democrats continue to bicker, the Republican base only strengthens.

The republican base is even more fragmented than you claim the democrats are .. and McCain is still having trouble raising funds for his campaign and trails BOTH democrats in campaign cash .. AND, democrats have outnumbered republicans at the polls 2 to 1.

Additionally, McCain is locked into the events of the Iraq war which has once again taken a turn for the worse and only an idiot would believe that the so-called surge has been successful.

McCain knows absolutely nothing about the economy, is prone to making really dumb comments, lapses into "senior moments" and he's too old to be president.

Stop kidding yourself .. McCain will be the easiet candidate the democrats have had to beat in a long time .. AND, not only will McCain get beaten badly, but so will republicans in Congress.

Kool-aid is bad for you.
 
By Nov the USA will not want 4 more years of the McSame. If they do I am just givin up on the good ol US of A.
 
The republican base is even more fragmented than you claim the democrats are .. and McCain is still having trouble raising funds for his campaign and trails BOTH democrats in campaign cash .. AND, democrats have outnumbered republicans at the polls 2 to 1.

Additionally, McCain is locked into the events of the Iraq war which has once again taken a turn for the worse and only an idiot would believe that the so-called surge has been successful.

McCain knows absolutely nothing about the economy, is prone to making really dumb comments, lapses into "senior moments" and he's too old to be president.

Stop kidding yourself .. McCain will be the easiet candidate the democrats have had to beat in a long time .. AND, not only will McCain get beaten badly, but so will republicans in Congress.

Kool-aid is bad for you.

Ahh, the power of positive thinking.
 
Yes and all that bickering is just going to help McCain all the way to November. Is that what you really think? That the dems will remain divided in to november? The choice is between a guy that is going to continue the war just as it is, and 72% of the people don't want to continue, and a guy that is going to do all he can to continue the slow errosion of civil liberties. The Republican Party has become the party of Big Brother. The dems need to drive that home. The right is all about big intrusive government. It is NOT the party of Reagan or even better Goldwater anymore.

The Dems really cannot drive home that point given that they realize the Reps simply joined them in that aspect. The Dems are all about..."the only way to solve something is for us to get involved in your lives and every aspect of the market"
 
The republican base is even more fragmented than you claim the democrats are .. and McCain is still having trouble raising funds for his campaign and trails BOTH democrats in campaign cash .. AND, democrats have outnumbered republicans at the polls 2 to 1.

Additionally, McCain is locked into the events of the Iraq war which has once again taken a turn for the worse and only an idiot would believe that the so-called surge has been successful.

McCain knows absolutely nothing about the economy, is prone to making really dumb comments, lapses into "senior moments" and he's too old to be president.

Stop kidding yourself .. McCain will be the easiet candidate the democrats have had to beat in a long time .. AND, not only will McCain get beaten badly, but so will republicans in Congress.

Kool-aid is bad for you.

You should take note of that. I know you are optimistic (and you should be), but you are kidding yourself if you think this is going to be a cakewalk for Obama. This election will be decided just like the last couple.... by a few percentage points AND by a few electoral votes.

A question for you... what states do you believe Obama can win that Kerry did not? OH? maybe. FL? I doubt it. Perhaps CO and NM.

What states did Kerry win that Obama might lose? I think NH, PA and WI will be close. Obama with the edge in PA and WI, but very close.
 
You should take note of that. I know you are optimistic (and you should be), but you are kidding yourself if you think this is going to be a cakewalk for Obama. This election will be decided just like the last couple.... by a few percentage points AND by a few electoral votes.

A question for you... what states do you believe Obama can win that Kerry did not? OH? maybe. FL? I doubt it. Perhaps CO and NM.

What states did Kerry win that Obama might lose? I think NH, PA and WI will be close. Obama with the edge in PA and WI, but very close.

I appreciate your perspective but Obama is not John Kerry and this is not America 2004.

The Bush Administration and Karl Rove have made Americans much smarter and they aren't falling for the same politrickery and okey-doke. I've said many times that the phenomenom of Obama could not have happened after Bill Clinton. Americans weren't yet properly prepared. Bush/Rove/Rumsfeld prepared Americans as they have never been prepared before.

It isn't that Obama is the teflon candidate, it's that Americans have heard this bullshit song before and they're changing channels.

More specifically, republicans don't have anything in their nefarious bag of tricks that will morph Iraq from a pig to a butterfly .. and as conditions in Iraq continue to worsen .. and they will .. who carries that stench? McCain for sure, maybe Clinton, but not Obama.

Three questions for you .. How can Iran's influence be removed from Iraq as McCain claims it must?

How can our troops continue long deployments and survive when it's no secret that they are worn the fuck out?

Is Iraq important enough for a draft?

McCain loses on all three counts.

As the economy continues to disintergrate, who gets the blame? McCain for sure, as he continues his clueless support of the Bush failed policies.

Another question for you .. Have you ever known the party in power to retain the White House during a recession?

As to what states will Obama win? .. I'd say most of them, including many red states.

McCain has tepid enthusiasm behind him at best .. something I think you know very well my brother. I don't take you for a kool-aid drinker, but you may have bought into the notion that republicans possess some kind of political magic. What they possessed over the last 8 years has been FEAR and they've used it liberally .. but they can't even keep their own ranks full as the Republican Party is in danger of becoming the Whigs.

What? You haven't noticed their declining numbers and influence?

You haven't noticed the uproar within the Republican Party?

McChameleon will have toi reach further and further to the right in order to appease the knuckledraggers and he's already doing that. You think America is ready for that?

Think Goldwater.
 
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The republican base is even more fragmented than you claim the democrats are .. and McCain is still having trouble raising funds for his campaign and trails BOTH democrats in campaign cash .. AND, democrats have outnumbered republicans at the polls 2 to 1.
Depends on the polls, which are generally not to be trusted anyway. As far as fragmented, the Republican party is more fragmented than general, but no where near the fragmentation of the Democratic Party. The Republican Party has been very successful in having close to a singular platform and counting on most to tow the party line. The Democrats, however, are made up largely of various interest groups, more of an alliance of convenience rather than a coherent political party.

Additionally, McCain is locked into the events of the Iraq war which has once again taken a turn for the worse and only an idiot would believe that the so-called surge has been successful.
I won't dispute that. However, McCain is going to be able to dodge most talk of the war, as discussed in this thread.

McCain knows absolutely nothing about the economy, is prone to making really dumb comments, lapses into "senior moments" and he's too old to be president.
And? Obama is not the Second Coming of Christ. The Republicans have very, very intelligent people working for them (whether for good or evil), and if you think Obama is going to get a cakewalk you are sadly mistaken. McCain has a fairly good chance, especially by the time the Democrats actually decide on a candidate.

Stop kidding yourself ..
If anyone is kidding himself, it is you. Take off the rose-tinted classes and let those starry eyes look into the real world.

McCain will be the easiet candidate the democrats have had to beat in a long time ..
You think so, eh? The media loves McCain, he appeals more to independents than a neocon president would, and you are forgetting that GEORGE W BUSH WAS RE-ELECTED.

AND, not only will McCain get beaten badly, but so will republicans in Congress.
They might, or the American people might realize that the Democrats have done nothing to stop the Republicans since the last election.

Kool-aid is bad for you.

Idealism is bad for you. I'm not voting McCain, I'm just not so stupid as to write him off.
 
I appreciate your perspective but Obama is not John Kerry and this is not America 2004.
No, but it isn't escapist reality world, either.

The Bush Administration and Karl Rove have made Americans much smarter and they aren't falling for the same politrickery and okey-doke.
The day that Americans are smart is the day that politics end. Americans will never be smart. They are going to have the same easily influenced mob mentality they (and other voters) have always had.

I've said many times that the phenomenom of Obama could not have happened after Bill Clinton. Americans weren't yet properly prepared. Bush/Rove/Rumsfeld prepared Americans as they have never been prepared before.
Bush/Rove/Rumsfeld are not running.

It isn't that Obama is the teflon candidate, it's that Americans have heard this bullshit song before and they're changing channels.
The fact that McCain and Obama are polling similarly (even if off by a few points) pokes a hole in your argument. This will not be a landslide, either way.




As the economy continues to disintergrate, who gets the blame? McCain for sure, as he continues his clueless support of the Bush failed policies.
The economy is the result of both parties.


As to what states will Obama win? .. I'd say most of them, including many red states.
You are smarter than this.
 
I see this election playing out much like past ones. Many states are locks for republicans and many are locks for the democrats. There will be 2 to 5 key states that will decide it. Same ol', same ol'.
 
Same ol', same ol'.

The sooner the Democrats realize this, the more likely they are to win the election. Assuming that Obama is going to descend on the White House on a fluffy cloud clothed in the votes of America is not going to accomplish anything other than handing the election to McCain. Obama got his nomination based on rhetoric, now he needs to move past empty speech.
 
I appreciate your perspective but Obama is not John Kerry and this is not America 2004.

The Bush Administration and Karl Rove have made Americans much smarter and they aren't falling for the same politrickery and okey-doke. I've said many times that the phenomenom of Obama could not have happened after Bill Clinton. Americans weren't yet properly prepared. Bush/Rove/Rumsfeld prepared Americans as they have never been prepared before.

It isn't that Obama is the teflon candidate, it's that Americans have heard this bullshit song before and they're changing channels.

More specifically, republicans don't have anything in their nefarious bag of tricks that will morph Iraq from a pig to a butterfly .. and as conditions in Iraq continue to worsen .. and they will .. who carries that stench? McCain for sure, maybe Clinton, but not Obama.

Three questions for you .. How can Iran's influence be removed from Iraq as McCain claims it must?

How can our troops continue long deployments and survive when it's no secret that they are worn the fuck out?

Is Iraq important enough for a draft?

McCain loses on all three counts.

As the economy continues to disintergrate, who gets the blame? McCain for sure, as he continues his clueless support of the Bush failed policies.

Another question for you .. Have you ever known the party in power to retain the White House during a recession?

As to what states will Obama win? .. I'd say most of them, including many red states.

McCain has tepid enthusiasm behind him at best .. something I think you know very well my brother. I don't take you for a kool-aid drinker, but you may have bought into the notion that republicans possess some kind of political magic. What they possessed over the last 8 years has been FEAR and they've used it liberally .. but they can't even keep their own ranks full as the Republican Party is in danger of becoming the Whigs.

What? You haven't noticed their declining numbers and influence?

You haven't noticed the uproar within the Republican Party?

McChameleon will have toi reach further and further to the right in order to appease the knuckledraggers and he's already doing that. You think America is ready for that?

Think Goldwater.

1) I don't think Irans influence will ever be completely removed. It was there even under Saddam. Can it be mitigated? I would imagine so, but I do not believe that is the wish of the Iraqi Shia leaders.

2) A good question. I do not know the answer. I would think the main objective has to be to continue training up the Iraqi army and police so that they can take the strain off of the troops.

3) No. A draft would never work.

Ok.... I agree Obama will win most blue states from 2004... but WHICH red states do you think he can take? As I stated before, I think he has a shot at OH, CO, NM.... but he also has shot at losing NH, PA, NJ and WI.

Yes, I have seen the lack of enthusiasm by the Reps and the Dems were smart to go with Obama vs. Hillary as he brings enthusiasm to the Dems where she would have brought it for the Reps.

I think you underestimate McCain though. 35-40% are going to vote Dem no matter what and about 30% will vote Rep no matter what. That leaves the 30% in the middle and both McCain and Obama do well with those voters. The only way I see this as a big win for Obama is if a large portion of those "vote Rep no matter what" voters stay home.
 
1) I don't think Irans influence will ever be completely removed. It was there even under Saddam. Can it be mitigated? I would imagine so, but I do not believe that is the wish of the Iraqi Shia leaders.

I agree with this .. but McCain does not. His goal of "victory" can never be achieved .. AND, the war planners have had great success in EXPLODING corporate coffers, but what they really want is the oil and success for them is forcing Iraq into an oil deal that gives all the loot and control of the oil to us .. the pirates. You may not agree with this brother, but you should take the time and investigate the Great Game. You can start with reading "Project for a New American Century: Building America's Defenses."

Admittedly, I am forever astonished by how easily Americans have been manipulated and I am in awe of the power of cognitive dissonance. I gotta tell you, I am truly amazed. The planners of this war have made more money than any corporation in the history of Man and it was obvious as the nose on your face that this was the plan from the very beginning. They even wrote of, and told the world what they were going to do and STILL most Americans couldn't figure it out. "Saddam could have MUSHROOM CLOUDS in America in 45 minutes."

PLEASE tell me .. exactly how dumb would you have to be to fall for that bullshit KNOWING that Iraq has been under sanctions for a dozen years.

The fraud of the Iraq war has been crystal clear from the beginning.

Oh sure .. NOW we've figured it out ... tens of thousands of dead and wounded VOLUNTEER US soldiers and countless of dead INNOCENT people later.

The neocon puppetmasters even stole the election TWICE right before our eyes. "Don't worry about it, electronic voting with no paper trails and no one but the republican owned and operated voting machine companies will be allowed to count the vote." Don't worry about it.

PLEASE tell me .. how fucking dumb would one have to be to believe that bullshit?

images


The good news is that we aren't still that dumb.

2) A good question. I do not know the answer. I would think the main objective has to be to continue training up the Iraqi army and police so that they can take the strain off of the troops.

C'mon brother .. I just said we aren't still that dumb. Five years and billions of dollars have already gone into training the Iraqi police and military. I know you to be a smart guy .. take those blinders off and burst through the dissonance .. and tell yourself the truth. We just mass-murdered their families and friends. Start from there.

3) No. A draft would never work.

You damn skippy it won't work .. because the war is bullshit and no one wants their son, daughter, or loved one lost to bullshit. The anger and upheaval would be greater than during Vietnam.

Tell yourself the truth brother and stop bullshittin'.

Ok.... I agree Obama will win most blue states from 2004... but WHICH red states do you think he can take? As I stated before, I think he has a shot at OH, CO, NM.... but he also has shot at losing NH, PA, NJ and WI.

You heard it here first .. he will win every state you mentioned. Before you dispute that keep in mind that I was one of those right about Iraq and electronic voting. Were you?

I have the power. :)

Yes, I have seen the lack of enthusiasm by the Reps and the Dems were smart to go with Obama vs. Hillary as he brings enthusiasm to the Dems where she would have brought it for the Reps.

I think you underestimate McCain though. 35-40% are going to vote Dem no matter what and about 30% will vote Rep no matter what. That leaves the 30% in the middle and both McCain and Obama do well with those voters. The only way I see this as a big win for Obama is if a large portion of those "vote Rep no matter what" voters stay home.

McCain will be easy. Imagine the debate between McCain and Obama.

What is McCain selling? .. Bush, Bush war and potential war with Iran, Bush economics.

What is Obama selling? .. The UnBush.

I have a seat waiting for you when you finally take the "red pill" and let go of the Matrix my brother.
 
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I see this election playing out much like past ones. Many states are locks for republicans and many are locks for the democrats. There will be 2 to 5 key states that will decide it. Same ol', same ol'.

Nothing about what has transpired thus far is "past" other then the politics .. the results of those politics is much different.

Just ask Hillary Clinton .. and please keep in mind that McCain was almost the last choice of the right .. only winning after all the other republican for president wannabes had their chance in the spotlight and failed.
 
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