The reason Palin is demonized, and you're not sure why you don't like her

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

That's really silly to accuse me of chauvinism.

If anything, I'm being egalitarian and criticizing her on issues unrelated to her persona or gender. It is the fact that she is heavily reliant on persona in absence of substance that is a problem and one that you can easily see in an opponent but not your own selected leader.

The reality is that you're the one playing the gender card here. A man with Sarah Palin's qualifications, stated views, and record would not be taken seriously for President. You're just applying a slightly more assertive tone to that same tired Sarah Palin victimhood line.

To give credit to where it's due for the current President, while maybe his misguided supporters said he was given a hard time for his color, he's always denied it. What makes Sarah Palin and her supporters think she will not have to be judged on her own strengths and weaknesses and can rest on a similar crutch?

I'm also recognizing the reality that in her current state she offers the movement nothing and she will likely lose. And then, even if she won, there is the issue of whether she offers anything new from what failed Republicans in the 2000s.

In that respect, her affiliation with McCain actually frightens me more than it reassures me. As much as I believe 2008 McCain would have in some small ways been a better President than 2008 George W. Bush, I also believe that in practice the results would have been largely identical.

Well, if you read carefully, I never actually "accused" you of anything, I merely suggested a reason for your continued lack of a legitimate basis in your dislike of Palin. The fact that you took it as an accusation, speaks for itself. You can clearly see how someone would not want to admit that is their real problem with Palin, it would be too politically incorrect to ever admit such a thing. It would, however, cause you to present generalized platitudes about Palin's "vision" or whatever.... empty sentences with no basis or specifics... just, she isn't right... she isn't qualified... she isn't serious...

You'll note, you have responded once again, without giving ANY specific on why you feel Palin is not qualified... Why do you think a man with Palin's qualifications wouldn't be qualified? Come on now, give us some specifics! What qualification does she lack, in your opinion??? Either man up and tell us what the fuck you dislike Palin for, or admit that you don't really have a legitimate reason, other than her being a beautiful woman!

 

[cawacko]

Not that anyone asked my opinion but I didn't see a single thing Adam wrote that to me had anything to do with gender.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Not that anyone asked my opinion but I didn't see a single thing Adam wrote that to me had anything to do with gender.

No, he didn't, and people don't often directly attribute prejudices to their bigotry either. It's hidden, that is what makes prejudiced bigotry so insidious. I am not accusing anyone of this, but I do think, when you find yourself struggling to answer the simple question and give specifics, the rest of us have to consider this possibility. Not many people are going to come here and admit, I don't like Sarah Palin because she is a beautiful woman and I think beautiful women shouldn't worry their pretty little heads with politics! I mean really, other than AssHatClown, who else would make that argument?

 

[cawacko]

Again this is just my opinion but I understand exactly why Adam isn't a big fan of hers based on his posts. I'm not saying I agree with him but I understand what he is saying.
And the idea that if even a Republican doesn't like Palin that it must be sexism does nothing to help her cause in my opinion.

 

[Adam Weinberg]

No, he didn't, and people don't often directly attribute prejudices to their bigotry either. It's hidden, that is what makes prejudiced bigotry so insidious. I am not accusing anyone of this, but I do think, when you find yourself struggling to answer the simple question and give specifics, the rest of us have to consider this possibility. Not many people are going to come here and admit, I don't like Sarah Palin because she is a beautiful woman and I think beautiful women shouldn't worry their pretty little heads with politics! I mean really, other than AssHatClown, who else would make that argument?

You're using doublethink here. Because I disregard an accusation, albeit a lightly sprinkled one, I am in your view projecting that your accusation is true. This maneuver is out of a leftist playbook, for cryin' out loud!

I think I've been pretty clear through this whole thread that I don't think she is committed to limited government and that her positions on the issues demonstrate that.

Most GOP grassroots supporters want a new start for the party, but Palin represents only a change in persona (which for what is considered her great strength among loyalists, is still one which doesn't speak to a wide enough audience).

On most public policy questions that have crossed her she is a defense of old, failed policies and on many others she has no record to demonstrate.

Just saying you are against tax and spend liberals and riling up "Hope" among the 29% of people who went down with W's sinking ship by criticizing the most obvious and convenient targets (ObamaCare) is not going to cut it anymore in a time when Republicans have no credibility on small government.

 

[Beefy]

Dixie only likes Palin because his leaders told him to like her. He doesn't really know why, as clearly he demonstrates on this thread among others, but he knows that his leaders like her. So like a good little lemming he follows them right off the cliff.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

You're using doublethink here. Because I disregard an accusation, albeit a lightly sprinkled one, I am in your view projecting that your accusation is true. This maneuver is out of a leftist playbook, for cryin' out loud!

Again, there was no accusation in merely pointing out that you aren't being specific, and have no clear reason for your dislike of Palin. You continue to say you base it on her 'views' or her 'vision' but you aren't specific on any of it.

I think I've been pretty clear through this whole thread that I don't think she is committed to limited government and that her positions on the issues demonstrate that.

You don't THINK this based on what, exactly? She cut the Alaska budget by 30% and had a $6 billion surplus? Not only is this her position, it is her record! Where do you THINK she isn't for limited government? What specifically demonstrates that, in your view? Certainly NOT her record!

Most GOP grassroots supporters want a new start for the party, but Palin represents only a change in persona (which for what is considered her great strength among loyalists, is still one which doesn't speak to a wide enough audience).

You keep mentioning her "persona" but again, you don't really explain what you mean? Are we supposed to support a leader with no persona to speak of? Would THAT make them a more palatable candidate to you? It seems to me, the "grass roots" people here, are the Tea Party movement, who identify most strongly with Sarah Palin, and ARE her strongest supporters!

I think what you mean to say is, most GOP elites want to take this opportunity to reform social conservatism out of the party, and become more libertarian in their platform, and Sarah Palin represents an obstacle to that.

On most public policy questions that have crossed her she is a defense of old, failed policies and on many others she has no record to demonstrate.

I think she has been very clear on what she disagrees with the previous administration on, and certainly doesn't support every failed policy of the past. As for a "record to demonstrate" ....what "record" did Obama have? What "record" did Bill Clinton have? ....what "record" did Ronald Reagan or Jimmy Carter have? We don't pick a president based largely on previous policy record, because most of them would never qualify! But here again, you set up a false dynamic to criticize Palin on... why?

Look... If I were here telling you how I didn't like Obama... but I couldn't really tell you why... I couldn't cite specific reasons, specific policies or ideas he had articulated... all I could do is repeat the same empty claims, that he wasn't experienced enough, wasn't smart enough, didn't have enough policy history... but I can't give any specifics on this.... I can't tell you what I specifically disagree with him on.... what would you think? Let me tell you what you would think.... You'd think, since I can't articulate a legitimate reason for my dislike of Obama, I am probably racially prejudiced against the man, and that is the basis for my dislike! That is what you'd think, and you would probably be correct to think it!

Just saying you are against tax and spend liberals and riling up "Hope" among the 29% of people who went down with W's sinking ship by criticizing the most obvious and convenient targets (ObamaCare) is not going to cut it anymore in a time when Republicans have no credibility on small government.

What are you even talking about? You are making NO sense at all now... just rambling nonsense! Sarah Palin has certainly had more to say than "riling up hope" and attacking ObamaCare! But what do you expect her to do? NOT speak out against the spending and ObamaCare? And how exactly does Sarah Palin fix the credibility of Republicans on small government? Is she supposed to go to Washington with her Moose Gun and mow down any Republican who votes for deficit spending? Would THAT be doing enough, in your opinion? I mean, really Adam, I don't get what you EXPECT from Palin at this point? You seem to be criticizing her, and holding her responsible for something she doesn't have any control over and can't do anything about!

Again.... WHY would someone be so unreasoned in their judgment?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Dixie only likes Palin because his leaders told him to like her. He doesn't really know why, as clearly he demonstrates on this thread among others, but he knows that his leaders like her. So like a good little lemming he follows them right off the cliff.

No, actually many of the "leaders" in the GOP, who I previously had enormous respect for, do not like Palin at all. Mitt Romeny, for one. If you watch ANY of the Sunday News shows, you know there are MANY republicans who don't like Palin, or they are at least a bit lukewarm toward her possibilities as a leader of the party.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Again this is just my opinion but I understand exactly why Adam isn't a big fan of hers based on his posts. I'm not saying I agree with him but I understand what he is saying.
And the idea that if even a Republican doesn't like Palin that it must be sexism does nothing to help her cause in my opinion.

And that isn't what I am saying here. If you don't like Palin, here is the place and forum to explain in most specific detail, what you don't like! All we keep hearing is a repeat of nothingness! She's not very smart... she's a lightweight... her policy positions are shallow... she isn't sophisticated enough... she supported something Bush did... she believes in God... the "righties" love her... she angers liberals like Rush and Hannity.... Do you not comprehend what is happening here? We are hearing BLATHER... absolute nonsensical BLATHER about why you don't like Sarah Palin. Nothing of substance, nothing tangible, nothing we can discuss or debate, it is all rooted in superficial jargon that means nothing, except you don't want to tell us why you REALLY don't like her!

Come on guys... SPIT IT OUT! Tell us what Sarah Palin has done that you don't agree with... Tell us some position she has taken which you oppose, and why! If you CAN'T do this, then what is your basis for the continued insinuations that this is your reasoning for dislike? Can't we reasonably conclude, if you are unable to present specific things you dislike, there MUST be something else? Can't we conclude that it's probably something you wish to hide and conceal from us, because you are too ashamed to admit it? Wouldn't it be rational and reasonable to assume you have some level of prejudice toward Palin because she is an attractive female, and it doesn't fit with your personal stereotypes?

 

[Canceled1]

Yeah, well, those things you mentioned would all be part of what some would call a vision. Even people who want small government should have that, know how to bring people around to voting for it, and actually care about getting it enacted.

Sarah Palin doesn't know what makes those things possible. She's so much about Sarah Palin and her image that it rarely seems that she cares.

This is why she supports bank bailouts and has no significant issues with our foreign policy, and yet in the same breath says she's against those supreme court rulings that diminish states rights because that's big government...not that she knows of any rulings to cite, of course.

She's running on the same knee-jerk, faux-conservative playbook that made Barack Obama's ascent possible and destroyed the American right's credibility with most people. You can't win an election when most folks don't trust you.

Don't delude yourself into thinking a talk radio demographic of folks patting themselves on the back can win a national election. This isn't 1994. This country is very different today and even a lot of conservatives do not care for Sarah Palin as a national leader.

I don't care if she wants to write books or do TV or talk shows or even go back to being a Governor. This isn't about the merits of Sarah Palin as a person or whether elitists like me think she's cool or not. This is about the brand, message, and future of an entire political movement, and there is no way I would entrust her with that.

Do you know the difference between George W. Bush and Sarah Palin?




...Lipstick.

The lipstick isn't looking all that good on the present pig either, Adam.

This is what I love about the "authorities" that post on political message boards. Long on words, short on demonstrable wisdom.

What the American people are saying is neither party is producing a candidate that they can get behind. We are seeing a daily deterioration of faith and belief in Obama, the "Change You Can Believe In" guy that had America in the grip of starry-eyed fantasy that he could wave a magic wand and make it all better. Buy all the countrys problems away.

No further evidence could be demonstrated than the black lady after casting her vote who exclaimed on television that Obama would make her debt go away (paraphrasing); The many interviewed after voting who couldn't give a credible reason why they cast their vote for Obama but who could be heard chanting, "Change We Can Believe In". Don't ask specifically what that change will be, your blind faith and loyalty is all we require, so sit back and enjoy the ride.

People are pissed. Right, left, middle etc. They see the power of choice being taken out of their hands and negotiated behind closed doors on the back of favors and bribes. This country is heading in a direction that scares the shit out of millions.

It's no longer the tired battle you guys trot out each time to prove an unprovable point, in your obviously undisguised tone you take with an mentally retarded child. The citizens of our country see they are being schnookered and it's apparent now more than ever...

THIS AIN'T CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN. OBAMA HAS PROVEN HE CAN'T BE BELIEVED.

 

[DamnYankee]

I was thinking about Palin today on my long drive back from the mountains. I've decided that I like her as a Presidential candidate, for the reasons a friend of mine laid out about 20 years ago for his ideal candidate: she knows right from wrong.

 

[meme]

I support Palin just for the fact that the libs and Progressives say she is no worries to them, yet they are the ones who continually bring her up her every word...sorta like Dick Cheney...it brings out the hate and venom in the left and it shows the Amercian people their true colors..

go Palin and Cheney...

 

[cawacko]

Dixie if I tell you I'm not a Huckabee fan because I don't like his economic populism will that be sexist as well?

And again I'm saying I agree with Adam but he seemed to make his position pretty clear as to why Palin is not his favorite.

You are doing exactly what the left did with Obama and racism.

 

[cawacko]

The lipstick isn't looking all that good on the present pig either, Adam.

This is what I love about the "authorities" that post on political message boards. Long on words, short on demonstrable wisdom.

What the American people are saying is neither party is producing a candidate that they can get behind. We are seeing a daily deterioration of faith and belief in Obama, the "Change You Can Believe In" guy that had America in the grip of starry-eyed fantasy that he could wave a magic wand and make it all better. Buy all the countrys problems away.

No further evidence could be demonstrated than the black lady after casting her vote who exclaimed on television that Obama would make her debt go away (paraphrasing); The many interviewed after voting who couldn't give a credible reason why they cast their vote for Obama but who could be heard chanting, "Change We Can Believe In". Don't ask specifically what that change will be, your blind faith and loyalty is all we require, so sit back and enjoy the ride.

People are pissed. Right, left, middle etc. They see the power of choice being taken out of their hands and negotiated behind closed doors on the back of favors and bribes. This country is heading in a direction that scares the shit out of millions.

It's no longer the tired battle you guys trot out each time to prove an unprovable point, in your obviously undisguised tone you take with an mentally retarded child. The citizens of our country see they are being schnookered and it's apparent now more than ever...

THIS AIN'T CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN. OBAMA HAS PROVEN HE CAN'T BE BELIEVED.

I didn't see Adam saying anything in support of Obama. I saw the argument regarding Palin as coming from within the GOP. Because people are pissed at Obama does that mean Palin is the best GOP candidate?

 

[christiefan915]

We don't need any more VISIONS for this country..look at the socialist-commie VISIONS this administration is trying to IMPOSE on us..

what we need is someone who cares about our country, our Security, and get the damn Government out of lives so we can make it what it will be..

Oh c'mon now, the entire bush presidency was his (and the PNAC's) vision of global democracy even if it had to be imposed.

 

[christiefan915]

I like Palin as a candidate but don't lover her. I agree a little bit too with the faux-conservatism that you referenced because she comes across to me more at times as a populist without real conservative/libertarian economic credentials. Now she still has time to show her stuff if she is thinking of running for the highest office but you are right she is going to have to appeal to more than just the right-wing if she has aspirations for winning and right now that's all her appeal is too.

My issue with her populism is what are her principles behind it? How deep are her convictions?

I think you'll learn a lot about her by reading her book, that is, if you haven't already.

 

[christiefan915]

Let's be clear, you are guilty of doing precisely what the author of the thread indicated. You "don't like" Palin, but you are struggling with the actual REASONS. I want to hear specifics! What skill is required by the President of the United States, which Palin lacks? I guarantee, whatever you come up with, the same can be said for Obama. In fact, the same could have been said for Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton or Jimmy Carter.

What specific aspect of Palin's "vision" needs "transforming?" Is it the understanding that government is not the solution, but often the problem? I think a LOT of people in this country, share that very same understanding and can relate to that message. Is it her vision of working-class Americans, and how they are the backbone of our economy? Again, I think MANY Americans can relate to that. I don't see where "transforming" these visions are beneficial to Palin or America. It's unclear exactly what you mean, and I think that was the point of this thread. We keep hearing you people throw out generalized statements regarding Palin's 'inadequacies' but you just don't have anything substantive to back your assertions. It all seems to boil down to this stigma placed on her by the mainstream media, socialist communists, and GOP elites, and nothing more.

The fact that a John McCain would pick Palin to run as his VP, tells me she is certainly not a right-wing extremist. McCain is probably the most moderate conservative in Congress, other than the frauds like Olympia Snow and Susan Collins. He has certainly never been viewed as 'extreme' by the left OR right. The fact that Palin took on her own party in Alaska, tells me she is not a partisan, and not interested in politics-as-usual leadership. Not really what you would consider 'extreme right wing' by any stretch. She does believe in God... but so does Obama, or so he claims! Most everyone in America believes in God, so that doesn't seem to be something to 'disqualify' Palin over.

Still.... There is something eating at you guys... something about Palin you dislike or fear, that isn't coming out.... could it be that she is a beautiful woman, and this scares your bigoted ass because beautiful women can't possibly be intelligent enough for the oval office? I really think that plays a factor in this sentiment toward Palin, whether you admit it or not. In fact, I fully understand why you wouldn't want to admit a stereotypical chauvinistic prejudice like that... what would your 'hip' friends think?

Your last paragraph is what libs find laughable about the 20%'s obsession with Palin. WTH votes for people because of something those people had no control over? And before you start with the name-calling, I heard this very same crap back in the '90s when Bill Clinton was running so it's not particular to Palin.

 

[cawacko]

I think you'll learn a lot about her by reading her book, that is, if you haven't already.

I love to read and while I'm sure it's interesting I have zero desire to read a book written by a politician whether I support them or not.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Dixie if I tell you I'm not a Huckabee fan because I don't like his economic populism will that be sexist as well?

And again I'm saying I agree with Adam but he seemed to make his position pretty clear as to why Palin is not his favorite.

You are doing exactly what the left did with Obama and racism.

I don't understand, and I think you misunderstand what I've said as well. Adam (or you) can't really articulate specific things you oppose in Palin. All you can say is the same tired rehash... she isn't smart enough... she isn't sophisticated enough... I don't like her policy positions... but you won't say WHICH policy positions! You're not really telling us why you oppose Palin, just that you do.

Did he make his position clear? I certainly don't see where he made the case for his position, although I guess you can say he DID make it clear. I'm not questioning whether or not you guys like Palin, it's obvious you don't, I'm asking you to present specifics on WHY you don't, and I am not hearing them! I keep hearing these empty meaningless terms, or unreasonable expectations and demands which neither Palin, or anyone else, could ever satisfy. What that keeps telling me is, there is something else about Palin, something you don't want to admit to the rest of us. Hmmm.... wonder what THAT could be?

 

[Canceled2]

Well, if you want an actual conservative leader who will limit government, respect free enterprise, and put our country on a sound financial footing for the long term, you can't pick someone as your standard bearer who has never promised, focused, or even much thought about doing that.

And especially someone who will not be able to convince 50%-plus-one-vote of the public that they're worth giving a chance to do it.

George Bush's victory over Kerry should be instructive that the country isn't going to get rid of any bad or misguided President just to get a new bad and equally misguided and out of touch President. If you want a second Carter, you need another Reagan in both form and substance.

And frankly, it doesn't matter if we win in 2012. Assuming a GOP victory this year in Congress, I'm not sure the events will align where it will even be possible.

All that matters is if we win or lose for the right reasons.

Tell me Adam, exactly what was Sarah's Alaska record on those issues and policies? Because what I have looked at with regards to her political record, it was pretty damned impressive from a strictly conservative perspective.