The Rich and the Poor

[Robo]

Some on the idiot left are still looking for that POOR PERSON that will provide them with a job. Some on the crooked left have found them. Leftist politicians have discovered that the poor will provide them with votes that guarantee those politicians with government jobs as long as the politicians promise the poor that they don’t need to work because crooked government politicians will simply rob the rich and hand the proceeds thereof to the poor for their votes. The scam works like a charm! As long as the politicians don’t run out of rich folks loot, they can operate the bribery scam forever, so they think. They can keep it going by also operating a crony capitalist system at the same time, i. e. GM, Chrysler, BIG Banks & Insurance Company bailouts and regulations that favor the BIG corporations and eliminate competition from smaller businesses.

Modern Day leftist are a hybridized concoction of communist/fascist/crony capitalist. They’ve devised a neo-system of government that capitalizes on every concept of authoritarianism that will work, (they think indefinitely) in a democratically elected government system. Problem is, their system requires willful ignorance of our Constitution, the violation of constitutional rights and liberties and every election requires more bribery and thereby more taxation or more debt or both. Like every contrived human government system it’s authoritarian by definition and thereby corrupt by the forces of human nature. The BIGGER the government, the BIGGER the corruption. Both right and left are guilty of it and the uninformed, apathetic and partisan population is responsible for it. We get the collective government we collectively deserve!

 

[evince]

what a shitty world you wish to see exsist

 

[evince]

some people dont care about their fellow man


some people do.

Your one of the ones who doesnt care about their fellow man.


More and more humans dont want to see the world you wish to see exsist.

 

[Robo]

what a shitty world you wish to see exsist

some people dont care about their fellow man


some people do.

Your one of the ones who doesnt care about their fellow man.


More and more humans dont want to see the world you wish to see exsist.

What evidence do you have to claim I wished for what you and your communist/fascist/crony capitalist bed fellows have created? The scam has existed for near 100 years now.

Is our fellow mankind served and uplifted by extorting and enslaving the most productive among us to financing the robbery of the self-respect, self-reliance and individual incentive of the least productive among us and enslaving them to reliance on government and bribing them of their vote with social programs?

Is our fellow mankind uplifted and served by the unholy alliance of politicians and mega-corporations in a crony-capitalist scam?

Is our fellow mankind up lifted and served by willful ignorance and violations of our Constitution by MEGA-CORRUPT BIG GOVERNMENT, who diminish and ignore our rights and freedoms?

 

[I'm Watermark]

Some on the idiot left are still looking for that POOR PERSON that will provide them with a job. Some on the crooked left have found them. Leftist politicians have discovered that the poor will provide them with votes that guarantee those politicians with government jobs as long as the politicians promise the poor that they don’t need to work because crooked government politicians will simply rob the rich and hand the proceeds thereof to the poor for their votes. The scam works like a charm! As long as the politicians don’t run out of rich folks loot, they can operate the bribery scam forever, so they think. They can keep it going by also operating a crony capitalist system at the same time, i. e. GM, Chrysler, BIG Banks & Insurance Company bailouts and regulations that favor the BIG corporations and eliminate competition from smaller businesses.

Modern Day leftist are a hybridized concoction of communist/fascist/crony capitalist. They’ve devised a neo-system of government that capitalizes on every concept of authoritarianism that will work, (they think indefinitely) in a democratically elected government system. Problem is, their system requires willful ignorance of our Constitution, the violation of constitutional rights and liberties and every election requires more bribery and thereby more taxation or more debt or both. Like every contrived human government system it’s authoritarian by definition and thereby corrupt by the forces of human nature. The BIGGER the government, the BIGGER the corruption. Both right and left are guilty of it and the uninformed, apathetic and partisan population is responsible for it. We get the collective government we collectively deserve!

Let me break this down:

1. An income is a human right, not a privilege.
2. Communism cannot exist in conjunction with capitalism, fascism, or a state. Nearly no communists would disagree with that statement.
3. The modern left, as you put it, doesn't exist. You're talking about pro new deal democrats, which are often viewed as centrist/center left, or just plain corporatist, by the left.
4. I agree with you that the bigger the government, the more room for corruption. But I don't automatically equate government with corruption. Plus, with privatization, you run into the same problems, only exaggerated.

 

[canceled.2021.1]

Let me break this down:

1. An income is a human right, not a privilege.
2. Communism cannot exist in conjunction with capitalism, fascism, or a state. Nearly no communists would disagree with that statement.
3. The modern left, as you put it, doesn't exist. You're talking about pro new deal democrats, which are often viewed as centrist/center left, or just plain corporatist, by the left.
4. I agree with you that the bigger the government, the more room for corruption. But I don't automatically equate government with corruption. Plus, with privatization, you run into the same problems, only exaggerated.

Let me break this down for you, in order for a job to be a right, then someone must be forced to provide that job thus infringing on that persons rights

It isn't government or capitalism itself that is inherently corrupt, it is man. The difference is that no private business can force me to do a thing against my will, a gobblement official can

 

[SmarterthanYou]

some people dont care about their fellow man


some people do.

Your one of the ones who doesnt care about their fellow man.


More and more humans dont want to see the world you wish to see exsist.

that sounds an awful lot like 'you're either with us, or you're with the terrorists'. you a GW fan?

 

[SmarterthanYou]

1. An income is a human right, not a privilege.

where do you find that at?

 

[evince]

when a soiciety gives a person no way to fend for themselves dont you think that is pretty unfair?

 

[evince]

that sounds an awful lot like 'you're either with us, or you're with the terrorists'. you a GW fan?

You either care about your fellow man or you dont.

People who dont care about their fellow man are damaged human beings.

They are a detriment to society and are not normal humans

 

[Robo]

Let me break this down:

1. An income is a human right, not a privilege.

The foundations of all rights are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. If an income makes you happy, you surely have a right to pursue the means whereby you can earn an income. You have no right to force another to give you an income because that would be an infringement on another’s right to tell you to go fuck yourself!

2. Communism cannot exist in conjunction with capitalism, fascism, or a state. Nearly no communists would disagree with that statement.

Nazi Germany was a fascist/capitalist state. Communist China is a communist/capitalist state. You know not of what you speak.

3. The modern left, as you put it, doesn't exist. You're talking about pro new deal democrats, which are often viewed as centrist/center left, or just plain corporatist, by the left.

Leftism is by definition authoritarianism. The neo-left will use any means to further its agenda of domination and control of government and thereby the masses. Its major tactic in democratically elected representation states is to win over the populace by the means of bribery for votes with social programs and massive regulation of the capitalist markets that only the well healed corporations can afford and thereby restrict competition from smaller businesses.

4. I agree with you that the bigger the government, the more room for corruption. But I don't automatically equate government with corruption. Plus, with privatization, you run into the same problems, only exaggerated.

Government by definition is force. Human nature by definition is corrupt. There’s no such animal as a perfectly moral human being and nobody can prove there is, including you. The human world is a “dog eat dog” world. Since we’re not perfect we create governments who’s only logical and moral purpose is to protect us one from another. Enter an agreed upon and thereby ratified Constitution, i. e. “rule of law.” A government that violates the rule of law and masses that vote for such governments create their own doom.

“Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it’s force like fire a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible actions.” (George Washington)

 

[Robo]

Let me break this down for you, in order for a job to be a right, then someone must be forced to provide that job thus infringing on that persons rights

It isn't government or capitalism itself that is inherently corrupt, it is man. The difference is that no private business can force me to do a thing against my will, a gobblement official can

A perfect and excellent reply.

 

[Robo]

when a soiciety gives a person no way to fend for themselves dont you think that is pretty unfair?

You mean like North Korea or maybe Cuba? Or are you talking about all of those countries in Europe that banned and confiscated their citizen’s guns?

 

[I'm Watermark]

Let me break this down for you, in order for a job to be a right, then someone must be forced to provide that job thus infringing on that persons rights

It isn't government or capitalism itself that is inherently corrupt, it is man. The difference is that no private business can force me to do a thing against my will, a gobblement official can

Yes, man in inherently corrupt. So any power system has the propensity to be corrupt.

But you don't seem to want to understand out PS. A private business can indeed tell you to do something, and you will do it, lest be fired, and loose the ability to generate income. And what happens if you can't generate income? You find another business owner to rent yourself out to, and to order you around. That's the nature of capitalism. It isn't the business owner that forces you to do something, but need that forces you to do that thing - so need puts in place a power structure between you and your employer.

 

[I'm Watermark]

The foundations of all rights are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. If an income makes you happy, you surely have a right to pursue the means whereby you can earn an income. You have no right to force another to give you an income because that would be an infringement on another’s right to tell you to go fuck yourself!


Nazi Germany was a fascist/capitalist state. Communist China is a communist/capitalist state. You know not of what you speak.


Leftism is by definition authoritarianism. The neo-left will use any means to further its agenda of domination and control of government and thereby the masses. Its major tactic in democratically elected representation states is to win over the populace by the means of bribery for votes with social programs and massive regulation of the capitalist markets that only the well healed corporations can afford and thereby restrict competition from smaller businesses.


Government by definition is force. Human nature by definition is corrupt. There’s no such animal as a perfectly moral human being and nobody can prove there is, including you. The human world is a “dog eat dog” world. Since we’re not perfect we create governments who’s only logical and moral purpose is to protect us one from another. Enter an agreed upon and thereby ratified Constitution, i. e. “rule of law.” A government that violates the rule of law and masses that vote for such governments create their own doom.

“Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it’s force like fire a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible actions.” (George Washington)

1. Income =/= happiness. It equals life.
2. I'm no expert on the topic, but all the other leftists I've talked to call China state capitalist. Which is an accurate term based on what I know, and the same I use for the US.
3. You can rant about this group of people all you'd like. But that still doesn't prove they exist, or are left wing.
4. Look, I'm not defending government, but you haven't made a case that government is corrupt - only that it infringes upon human nature. And we have a very different understanding of human nature.

 

[DamnYankee]

Hey (sycamore) Tree, I'm still waiting for an answer to my questions:

Do you really think that the rich take from the poor?

Do you also think that in order for there to be rich, there must be many poor? If so, then why?

 

[Robo]

Yes, man in inherently corrupt. So any power system has the propensity to be corrupt.

But you don't seem to want to understand out PS. A private business can indeed tell you to do something, and you will do it, lest be fired, and loose the ability to generate income. And what happens if you can't generate income? You find another business owner to rent yourself out to, and to order you around. That's the nature of capitalism.

On the contrary! Though you may be fired, you have more options besides just looking for another employer. Have you never heard of “self-employment?” Have you never heard of becoming an employer yourself? Actually capitalism is an agreeable contract between employer and employee. You don’t have to take a job. If you take a job offer you’re not being “pushed around” by your employer, you’re simply being expected to fulfill your half of the contract. If you didn’t understand what was required of you when you accepted the contract that’s your stupidity, not the employer’s.

It isn't the business owner that forces you to do something, but need that forces you to do that thing - so need puts in place a power structure between you and your employer.

You contradict yourself! First you blame the employer for ordering you around, then you blame “your need” for ordering you around, which is it?

The “power structure” between you and your employer is actually generated on both your counts by a need. If your employer didn’t need you he/she wouldn’t have hired you. If you didn’t “need” a job, you wouldn’t have accepted the job unless you took it because it was “challenging” and you “need” a challenge.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

when a soiciety gives a person no way to fend for themselves dont you think that is pretty unfair?

my question to you would be 'why do you consider it unfair when a person forces a disadvantage upon another person, but when the government forces a disadvantage against a person, you keep your mouth shut about it?'

 

[SmarterthanYou]

You either care about your fellow man or you dont.

People who dont care about their fellow man are damaged human beings.

They are a detriment to society and are not normal humans

do you apply that axiom to police officers who say 'i'm going home at the end of my shift, no matter what' and end up killing innocents during a SWAT raid?

 

[I'm Watermark]

On the contrary! Though you may be fired, you have more options besides just looking for another employer. Have you never heard of “self-employment?” Have you never heard of becoming an employer yourself? Actually capitalism is an agreeable contract between employer and employee. You don’t have to take a job. If you take a job offer you’re not being “pushed around” by your employer, you’re simply being expected to fulfill your half of the contract. If you didn’t understand what was required of you when you accepted the contract that’s your stupidity, not the employer’s.



You contradict yourself! First you blame the employer for ordering you around, then you blame “your need” for ordering you around, which is it?

The “power structure” between you and your employer is actually generated on both your counts by a need. If your employer didn’t need you he/she wouldn’t have hired you. If you didn’t “need” a job, you wouldn’t have accepted the job unless you took it because it was “challenging” and you “need” a challenge.

Yea... you didn't read what I wrote, did you? Employers need employees, in fact the whole system does. If labor disappears, the whole system does. Need forces a very much involuntary contract between employee and employer - one where the employee holds no power.

And as for your rhetoric about starting your own company? You go try to support a family on a tiny wage, then take the huge financial risk(especially for low incomers) to start a business. In a country like this, most of them fail.

http://smallbiztrends.com/2005/07/business-failure-rates-highest-in.html