The world doesn't hate America, the Left does

[Onceler]

They're at it again.

onceler comes up with that gem, and then in the same post complains that someone else is "twisting the Iraq fiasco". Then to top it off, he whines that "There is a huge misconception on the right about leftist thought"!!!

These sad, bitter leftists say the funniest things when they are losing. Do they ever actually stop and and think about what they just wrote.....??

What a total misrepresentation of my post. Are you able to read? Do you have comprehension issues?

You sound just like I expect dittoheads to sound, in that you aren't really displaying an ability to think.

TOO BAD, SO SAD

 

[evince]

Then how do you find compassion in an argument the says that people made their beds and need to sleep in them without help. Childern have no power to control their parents bad decision or powerless positions.

There is no compasssion in that arguement is there?

 

[Damocles]

Then how do you find compassion in an argument the says that people made their beds and need to sleep in them without help. Childern have no power to control their parents bad decision or powerless positions.

There is no compasssion in that arguement is there?

Again, it is not uncompassionate to understand that some of the best lessons in life are earned the hard way, and that children often learn best watching their parents overcome hardship.

Of course, this is pretense in a large sense as even the Republican platform speaks of government intervention and help for those who are down. It is simply that they don't believe that it should be income. That the problem should be SOLVED by the government.

 

[evince]

Then why do they cut job training , medical care, pell grants and the like?

They are the ones using the compassion is equal to starvation arguement.

That is not compassion.

 

[Damocles]

Then why do they cut job training , medical care, pell grants and the like?

They are the ones using the compassion is equal to starvation arguement.

That is not compassion.

It also is not compassion to become their providers as the lessons taught are negative to the goal of self-sufficiency.

Also, it is disingenuous to suggest that a lower rate of growth is a "cut" as you are doing here.

 

[Damocles]

Have you also noticed we began to speak of levels of support rather than the supposed "uncompassionate" belief that there should be no support at all?

I did.

Now we have begun discussing different types of compassion, as you attempt to solely define it by the levels of support that you believe are necessary for "compassion" and I suggest that there is a level that it becomes too high rather than where you began.

It is interesting how the conversation shifted, and will continue to shift throughout the discussion of "compassion". Both sides are compassionate, IMO, it is just one takes a longer view rather than an immediate view.

 

[cawacko]

It also is not compassion to become their providers as the lessons taught are negative to the goal of self-sufficiency.

Also, it is disingenuous to suggest that a lower rate of growth is a "cut" as you are doing here.

See I don't buy this "I'm compassionate because I support more government programs".

I don't come from the school of we need no government or no government programs but history has shown many government programs that people feel are "compassionate" end up doing far more bad than good towards the people the program was originally designed to help.

 

[evince]

we have tried the 'longer view" I think you are talking about and it is the reason these programs were implemented in the first place. When you ignore the problem and try to allow the "lesson" to by learned by hard knocks what you end up with is a larger percent of these problems in the society.

The country provides no way to pull yourself up by the boot straps anymore. Tell me how a poor kid in a substandard school system and parents who are self medicating with alcohol is ever going to get into any college? There was a time when you could just work hard and produce enough past basic subsistance to make some headway. This is becoming impossible for many in our society.

To say it is all their fault and they need to just overcome this and pay the same prices every other person who goes to college who has parents who provide, great schools, legacy to get accepted and many ohter advantages just creates a larger and larger group of people who will never make it.

 

[evince]

See I don't buy this "I'm compassionate because I support more government programs".

I don't come from the school of we need no government or no government programs but history has shown many government programs that people feel are "compassionate" end up doing far more bad than good towards the people the program was originally designed to help.

No you got it backwards. I support certain programs because Im compassionate.

Thanks for helping prove my point though Cawac

 

[cawacko]

No you got it backwards. I support certain programs because Im compassionate.

Thanks for helping prove my point though Cawac

You mean you support certain programs that do more harm than good to people but you support them because it makes you feel good about yourself because you feel you are so compassionate.

 

[Damocles]

we have tried the 'longer view" I think you are talking about and it is the reason these programs were implemented in the first place. When you ignore the problem and try to allow the "lesson" to by learned by hard knocks what you end up with is a larger percent of these problems in the society.

The country provides no way to pull yourself up by the boot straps anymore. Tell me how a poor kid in a substandard school system and parents who are self medicating with alcohol is ever going to get into any college? There was a time when you could just work hard and produce enough past basic subsistance to make some headway. This is becoming impossible for many in our society.

To say it is all their fault and they need to just overcome this and pay the same prices every other person who goes to college who has parents who provide, great schools, legacy to get accepted and many ohter advantages just creates a larger and larger group of people who will never make it.

The longer view I speak of takes longer than a few years to determine if it is working. Losing patience and changing course just makes it more difficult.

It doesn't change the idea that you think you are better because you believe that the other side is missing a piece of humanity you believe your side has. Which is the very definition of elitism I proposed.

While most people, including myself, can understand that the goal is the same for both groups, just the map they use to get to the destination is different, some people refuse to even try to understand the mindset of the other side. Those people have an almost religious belief in the moral superiority of their side. They will even refuse to listen to people who don't want their intrusion into their lives and enforce such intrusions in the name of their moral elitism. They will forever believe that they are "better" than those "scum" on the other side.

It doesn't matter whose ideology you use, you are not more human than those with a different perspective on how to solve problems.

 

[cawacko]

we have tried the 'longer view" I think you are talking about and it is the reason these programs were implemented in the first place. When you ignore the problem and try to allow the "lesson" to by learned by hard knocks what you end up with is a larger percent of these problems in the society.

The country provides no way to pull yourself up by the boot straps anymore. Tell me how a poor kid in a substandard school system and parents who are self medicating with alcohol is ever going to get into any college? There was a time when you could just work hard and produce enough past basic subsistance to make some headway. This is becoming impossible for many in our society.

To say it is all their fault and they need to just overcome this and pay the same prices every other person who goes to college who has parents who provide, great schools, legacy to get accepted and many ohter advantages just creates a larger and larger group of people who will never make it.

There are systems in place that help people in those types of situations. It's funny you don't want to help a kid in a failing school by giving him options to go elsewhere but then you want to worry about them when its time to go to college. Well most don't make it that point to worry about college.

 

[Damocles]

No you got it backwards. I support certain programs because Im compassionate.

Thanks for helping prove my point though Cawac

You support certain programs because you believe that only the immediate and short view can ever be considered compassionate and refuse to recognize the humanity of those who believe differently than you.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

The answer is that the American left hates the America that believes in American exceptionalism,

American exceptionalism is moronic

is prepared to use force to fight what it deems as dangerous evil

I'm prepared to fight in self defense, not go on futile crusades against the phantom menace of the moment and kill hundreds of thousands of innocent women and children in the process.

affirms the Judeo-Christian value system

I'm an atheist. Thanks for the compliment, though. Of course atheists don't have morals.

believes in the death penalty

Of course I don't believe in the death penalty.

supports male-female marriage

I support marriage of whatever you and your partner see fit. You support big government that comes in and forces you to do what it deems appropriate, you lefty.

rejects big government

Big government is wasteful. Of course I oppose it.

wants lower taxes

If it's possible without destroying anything important.

prefers free market to governmental solutions, etc

I do too.

 

[Little-Acorn]

Then why do they cut job training , medical care, pell grants and the like?

An excellent summation of the modern liberal outlook on society.

If government doesn't do job training, no one will do job training.

If government doesn't provide medical care, no one will provide medical care.

If government doesn't "give" money for schooling, no one will spend money for schooling.

The government giveth, and the government taketh away.

How on earth did these people become so enamoured of the idea that government is dominant over the society that put it in place? That we must depend on "government" as the source of all that is good and right?

Ironically, their worship of government becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy if taken to the extreme these people seem to want. As govt expands and takes over more and more, it stifles competition when real groups and companies can't compete with the govt-subsidized goods and services "given" out. While if govt thinks its "prices" are too high to compete, it can simply increase taxes and lower the prices by further subsidization. Real companies can't sell against such artificially-lowered prices, and must go out of business. Pretty soon, govenment IS the source of all that's well and good... except that by then, it's not particularly good, not having any incentive to compete.

 

[evince]

Why dont you just tell us who will educate the poor if the government doesnt?

 

[Damocles]

Why dont you just tell us who will educate the poor if the government doesnt?

Strawman, it assumes somebody said that the government should not educate "the poor".

Edit: Well, I see LA did say that. Let's see what their answer is.

 

[cawacko]

Why dont you just tell us who will educate the poor if the government doesnt?

The government doesn't seem to be doing a very good job now does it? No one has called for elimination of public schools Desh. But you are oppposed to any reforms that would actually help the kids you claim to be so compassionate about.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Hi Diuretic, I've always marveled that conservatives such as Smarter are always the ones to cast the first stone. A very consistent pattern wherein the fault is always the other person. Curious, given the mess conservative rule under the Cheney/Bush administration has caused.

http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts03132008.html

dude, do you have me so wrong. I'll slam everybody, democrat or republican, and I don't care who does what. I've slammed bush and cheney, gonzalez, reno, clinton, obama, etc.

pay attention next time.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Why dont you just tell us who will educate the poor if the government doesnt?

what happened to parents educating their own kids? It's not hard to learn how to read, write, and do math for yourself.

school is not to educate, it should be to teach people how to learn for themselves.