Trump lies about his assets

[Into the Night]

Your kind is always spewing that no one lost any money due to Trumps overstating the value of his properties. Is a bankruptcy or 5 sufficient to show investors and banks lost money because of trump?

What bankruptcy? Trump has never filed for bankruptcy. What investors? Trump owns Mar-a-Lago.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

You my dear aren't bright enough to have written this, or posted the link. So who did it for you?

 

[LurchAddams]

Donald Trump grossly inflated his assets, says Attorney General Letitia James, and now the full transcript in that civil fraud case is being revealed to the public.

In nearly 500 pages, and on tape, Trump is probed about his properties and business and whether or not he has lied about all of it on official documents.

Taken April 13, 2023, Trump explained that he was far too busy being president to handle his personal businesses. Under oath, the former president claimed to have saved millions of lives, indeed the whole world, from nuclear war. What's worse, he claimed, it still might happen.

"I considered this the most important job in the world, saving millions of lives. I think you would have nuclear holocaust (sic), if I didn't deal with North Korea. I think you would have a nuclear war, if I weren't elected. And I think you might have a nuclear war now, if you want to know the truth," Trump claimed in the now-public deposition

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-deposition-letitia-james/

In other news, ice is cold.

trump lies about everything.

 

[floridafan]

Zero.

6

 

[Nordberg]

Not if there is no one who can show a loss because of it. You just aren't grasping this. Who was economically harmed by Trump's actions? Even more to the point, who in the state of New York was harmed economically by Trump's actions in Florida?

The problem is the property was declared unusable for future development. He made that deal to get lower taxes. That makes the property worth much less and it lowered his tax rate. However, when he was borrowing money he declared that land could be used for building commercial buildings. Therefore he was declaring its value much higher than it was worth. That makes him a tax cheat.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

The problem is the property was declared unusable for future development. He made that deal to get lower taxes. That makes the property worth much less and it lowered his tax rate. However, when he was borrowing money he declared that land could be used for building commercial buildings. Therefore he was declaring its value much higher than it was worth. That makes him a tax cheat.

But that's not what he's in court for. He supposedly defrauded the state of New York... Well, New York doesn't tax Mar a Lago...

 

[Dutch Uncle]

But that's not what he's in court for. He supposedly defrauded the state of New York... Well, New York doesn't tax Mar a Lago...

Not a business guy, but my understanding is that Mar-a-Lago property was used as collateral in a NY loan. Ergo, if the property was over-valued in order to fraudulently obtain a loan, then it's fraud.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Not a business guy, but my understanding is that Mar-a-Lago property was used as collateral in a NY loan. Ergo, if the property was over-valued in order to fraudulently obtain a loan, then it's fraud.

If Trump paid back the loan in full there was no fraud because there was no loss. The plaintiff in civil fraud case has to show loss to gain anything. Simply being lied to... even egregiously lied to by the defendant who made good on the loan does not constitute fraud.

I'm not defending Trump here, nor saying he didn't lie to get the loan. I'm saying for fraud to be proven he had to harm the plaintiff economically in some way. No loss, no case.

 

[QP!]

If Trump paid back the loan in full there was no fraud because there was no loss. The plaintiff in civil fraud case has to show loss to gain anything. Simply being lied to... even egregiously lied to by the defendant who made good on the loan does not constitute fraud.

I'm not defending Trump here, nor saying he didn't lie to get the loan. I'm saying for fraud to be proven he had to harm the plaintiff economically in some way. No loss, no case.

Stop repeating this Fox news lie and right derp talking point.

If NYS finds an Investment Firm running a blatant fraud to raise funds (think Bernie Madoff 2) and that firm has YET to go bankrupt or cause a single investor a loss, as was the case with Madoff pre 2007, the State of NY can still stop and prosecute the fraud, even if doing so is what then causes the Madoff 2 firm to go bankrupt and cause the losses.

Your argument that NYS knowing the fraud is going on must IGNORE it until losses are generated for investors is the type of bottom of the depths stupid that Fox and right derp media know only their dumbest viewers will believe and repeat.

 

[QP!]

Pre 2008 and before the Mortgage crisis melted down, losses were not happening despite the obvious fraud (NINJA loans, etc) because home prices were rising so fast that it made up for the fraud.

it also created a waiting time bomb in the system, that when housing prices stopped growing exploded.

Terry is arguing that as long as the markets are good and frothy and no one is losing the government cannot stop the fraud and prosecute the offenders to PROTECT THE BANKING SYSTEMS.

Terry is wrong, and stupid. The banking system and gov't is a victim BEFORE the defaults happen because of the erosion and security of the systems. It is the same if you lie with your data in an Insurance pool. You are providing false data which harms the pools.

The State has an obligation to act on the fraud and NOT wait until default as Terry is arguing. Again because he is stupid.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Stop repeating this Fox news lie and right derp talking point.

If NYS finds an Investment Firm running a blatant fraud to raise funds (think Bernie Madoff 2) and that firm has YET to go bankrupt or cause a single investor a loss, as was the case with Madoff pre 2007, the State of NY can still stop and prosecute the fraud, even if doing so is what then causes the Madoff 2 firm to go bankrupt and cause the losses.

Your argument that NYS knowing the fraud is going on must IGNORE it until losses are generated for investors is the type of bottom of the depths stupid that Fox and right derp media know only their dumbest viewers will believe and repeat.

False analogy. Madoff's firm could demonstrably be shown to be a pyramid scheme and that investors had lost considerable money as a result. No one is claiming Trump ran a pyramid scheme.

You also can't sue for potential losses in the future in virtually all cases. You can only sue to recover real loss.

 

[QP!]

False analogy. Madoff's firm could demonstrably be shown to be a pyramid scheme and that investors had lost considerable money as a result. No one is claiming Trump ran a pyramid scheme.

You also can't sue for potential losses in the future in virtually all cases. You can only sue to recover real loss.

Terry, be less stupid please.

I DID NOT SAY Madoff specifically and deliberately did not.

You can use any firm committing any form of XYZ fraud to build their business.

YOUR CLAIM is that NYS can do NOTHING, as long as the fraud is not YET suffering losses. Even if they can see the false representations, your position is that the government needs to WAIT until some losses occur before they can indict.

You are factual wrong, and totally stupid. This is a right wing derp point they direct at the dumbest amongst them and you bought it.

 

[QP!]

Terry i say this for your own good. You need to accept you are a stupid person and speak less to stop showing it. This case amongst other defines the type of precedent that exists in ALL States that allows them to stop fraud BEFORE victims occur.

INTENT TO DEFRAUD STATUTE NYS LAW.

...In the 2008 decision People v Elliassen, the Richmond County Supreme Court (within the Second Department) held that the intent to defraud required no pecuniary loss, and that interference with the legitimate public administration... sufficed . The court stated:

Counts Two through Thirteen, Falsifying Business Records in the First and Second Degrees, ... These statutes require defendants to have an “intent to defraud”. It is not necessary to show a property or pecuniary loss from the fraud,....


...The court reviewed relevant precedent–including Kase, Schrag, and Elliassen–and held that “the term ‘intent to defraud’ does not require an intent to deprive the state of money or property, but rather intent to frustrate legitimate state interests and processes.

Again by Terry's derp logic, he or anyone can start a Financial firm based on clear lies and fraud and start raising all sorts of money, and deploying it, and the gov't can do nothing. They must wait the years it may take for the fraud to collapse and create a victim and then and only then, can the gov't act. That is not true and is stupid. Thus why Terry believes it.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Terry i say this for your own good. You need to accept you are a stupid person and speak less to stop showing it. This case amongst other defines the type of precedent that exists in ALL States that allows them to stop fraud BEFORE victims occur.

INTENT TO DEFRAUD STATUTE NYS LAW.




Again by Terry's derp logic, he or anyone can start a Financial firm based on clear lies and fraud and start raising all sorts of money, and deploying it, and the gov't can do nothing. They must wait the years it may take for the fraud to collapse and create a victim and then and only then, can the gov't act. That is not true and is stupid. Thus why Terry believes it.

That's criminal law. Trump is in a civil suit.

 

[Into the Night]

6

Hallucination. Trump has never filed for bankruptcy.

 

[Into the Night]

The problem is the property was declared unusable for future development. He made that deal to get lower taxes. That makes the property worth much less and it lowered his tax rate. However, when he was borrowing money he declared that land could be used for building commercial buildings. Therefore he was declaring its value much higher than it was worth. That makes him a tax cheat.

Hallucination. No such 'declaration' occurred.

 

[Into the Night]

Not a business guy, but my understanding is that Mar-a-Lago property was used as collateral in a NY loan. Ergo, if the property was over-valued in order to fraudulently obtain a loan, then it's fraud.

You are hallucinating again, Sock.

 

[Into the Night]

Stop repeating this Fox news lie and right derp talking point.

If NYS finds an Investment Firm running a blatant fraud to raise funds (think Bernie Madoff 2) and that firm has YET to go bankrupt or cause a single investor a loss, as was the case with Madoff pre 2007, the State of NY can still stop and prosecute the fraud, even if doing so is what then causes the Madoff 2 firm to go bankrupt and cause the losses.

Your argument that NYS knowing the fraud is going on must IGNORE it until losses are generated for investors is the type of bottom of the depths stupid that Fox and right derp media know only their dumbest viewers will believe and repeat.

FOX News is owned and operated by Democrats, dummy.

 

[Into the Night]

Pre 2008 and before the Mortgage crisis melted down, losses were not happening despite the obvious fraud (NINJA loans, etc) because home prices were rising so fast that it made up for the fraud.

it also created a waiting time bomb in the system, that when housing prices stopped growing exploded.

Terry is arguing that as long as the markets are good and frothy and no one is losing the government cannot stop the fraud and prosecute the offenders to PROTECT THE BANKING SYSTEMS.

Terry is wrong, and stupid. The banking system and gov't is a victim BEFORE the defaults happen because of the erosion and security of the systems. It is the same if you lie with your data in an Insurance pool. You are providing false data which harms the pools.

The State has an obligation to act on the fraud and NOT wait until default as Terry is arguing. Again because he is stupid.

No fraud.

 

[Into the Night]

Terry, be less stupid please.

I DID NOT SAY Madoff specifically and deliberately did not.

You can use any firm committing any form of XYZ fraud to build their business.

YOUR CLAIM is that NYS can do NOTHING, as long as the fraud is not YET suffering losses. Even if they can see the false representations, your position is that the government needs to WAIT until some losses occur before they can indict.

You are factual wrong, and totally stupid. This is a right wing derp point they direct at the dumbest amongst them and you bought it.

False equivalence fallacy.