Uh-oh...another communist/socialist on the rise in South America

cawacko said:
Outside of the U.A.E. which I told you has completely changed their economy which is why they are where they are today what country that has taken over means of production be it real estate, oil etc. is considered a top tier economy or a growth country?
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I've already said that I don't believe there is any historcial evidence that pure socialism, with all means of production and manufacturing being government controlled works.

That's never been an issue in this thread. The issue, I thought, was whether there are examples of nations that put their natural resources, like oil, minerals, and gas, into some form of public trust, or under some form of public ownership....for the express purpose of promoting the common good. And there are examples of that.
 
Cypress said:
I've already said that I don't believe there is any historcial evidence that pure socialism, with all means of production and manufacturing being government controlled works.

That's never been an issue in this thread. The issue, I thought, was whether there are examples of nations that put their natural resources, like oil, minerals, and gas, into some form of public trust, or under some form of public ownership....for the express purpose of promoting the common good. And there are examples of that.
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I brought up the issue of government taking private property such as real estate and why Latin America has been in the economic doldrums for decades because foreign investors are afraid to invest there and gave the example of my industry.
 
cawacko said:
I brought up the issue of government taking private property such as real estate and why Latin America has been in the economic doldrums for decades because foreign investors are afraid to invest there and gave the example of my industry.
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the wholesale confiscation of private property to my knowledge, is only an attribute of the most extreme stalinist and communist countries. I don't know anyone who defends that, and I'm quite sure its not the issue in Ecuador.
 
uscitizen said:
I'm open if you can show me an example of a Latin American country where that has worked successfully.
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VZ so far , kinda like capitolism has worked so far in the USA. It all has to do with time periods. History has shown that no govt will last forever.
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This was so good I had to re-read it again. You are saying Ven. is having similar economic success to the United States? Really?

And where has capitalism been 'shut down' if you will into a more socialistic type government and the quality of life has continually increased? Because I can give you numerous examples of where markets have been opened up from central planning control and countries have seen the economic benefit.
 
Cypress said:
the wholesale confiscation of private property to my knowledge, is only an attribute of the most extreme stalinist and communist countries. I don't know anyone who defends that, and I'm quite sure its not the issue in Ecuador.
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i gave a general statement that these Latin American countries continue to elect the populist dictators who end up doing nothing for their economies. The evidence is plain to see in the lack of economic growth and the lack of foreign investment these countries receive.
 
cawacko said:
i gave a general statement that these Latin American countries continue to elect the populist dictators who end up doing nothing for their economies. The evidence is plain to see in the lack of economic growth and the lack of foreign investment these countries receive.
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I don't think either you or I are expert enough on south american economies to make blanket statements like that.

I don't think pure socialist economies work, but I'm not aware that there's ever been a pure socialist economy in south america. The neoliberal, phony free-marketeer experiments have had mixed results as well. Argentian, Venezuela, and Uruguay nearly collapesed after implementing the Milton Friedman school of economic hocus pocus. Chile has done better, allegedly. Venezuela and Uruguays economies have done much better since electing more populist leaders, and having a more mixed hybrid economy, rather than a milton friedman economy.

So, you'd have to look at it on a country by country basis. Blanket statements and generalizations are weak.
 
Come on, America is much closer to Friedmans ideas {especially in Monetary Policy} than a few latin america countries are/were other than Chile. Plus, without stable rule of law no economic policy will work as well.
 
Obfuscate said:
Come on, America is much closer to Friedmans ideas {especially in Monetary Policy} than a few latin america countries are/were other than Chile. Plus, without stable rule of law no economic policy will work as well.
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yeah they clearly would benefit from the death penalty down south ;)
More Prisons ! that is the answer.
 
Obfuscate said:
Come on, America is much closer to Friedmans ideas {especially in Monetary Policy} than a few latin america countries are/were other than Chile. Plus, without stable rule of law no economic policy will work as well.
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Its pointless to look at one example, and proclaim a global victory.

Uruguay has a stable, investor-friendly economy, with an educated, middle class workforce. And Uruguay is an example where the State plays a very important role in the economy. Its a country that has resisted the privatization trend. Much of the public infrastrucure, water, energy, banking, insurance, and telecom there is State owned. And they aren't collapsing. They are thriving.
 
uscitizen said:
It is all about economic growth at any cost.
Sigh....
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Ok, sigh. Economic growth is bad, sigh. People living in continual poverty year after year is good, sigh if they are doing in the name of avoiding economic growth, sigh.

Basically, economic growth, sigh = evil. I'm sure those millions living in poverty are 100% anti-growth, sigh.
 
Cypress said:
I don't think either you or I are expert enough on south american economies to make blanket statements like that.

I don't think pure socialist economies work, but I'm not aware that there's ever been a pure socialist economy in south america. The neoliberal, phony free-marketeer experiments have had mixed results as well. Argentian, Venezuela, and Uruguay nearly collapesed after implementing the Milton Friedman school of economic hocus pocus. Chile has done better, allegedly. Venezuela and Uruguays economies have done much better since electing more populist leaders, and having a more mixed hybrid economy, rather than a milton friedman economy.

So, you'd have to look at it on a country by country basis. Blanket statements and generalizations are weak.
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I'm expert enough on my industry which invests several trillion dollars around the globe on behalf of pension funds to know that very very little of it is headed to Latin America because of its instability, general lack of property rights and rule of law etc.

There is a reason the standard of living in Latin America lags far behinds.
 
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