Ukraine running out of ammunition, losing ground

[Cypress]

And Republicans haven't passed a dime in military aid for Ukraine since winning the House back in 2022.


"In recent weeks, Ukraine’s troops have lost ground in the east, as they struggle with dwindling numbers of shells, bullets and even soldiers. And the situation could soon become much worse. U.S. intelligence has predicted that Ukraine may run out air defense missiles by the end of the month."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/20/ukraine-weapons-industry-domestic-production/#

 

[Scott]

And Republicans haven't passed a dime in military aid for Ukraine since winning the House back in 2022.


"In recent weeks, Ukraine’s troops have lost ground in the east, as they struggle with dwindling numbers of shells, bullets and even soldiers. And the situation could soon become much worse. U.S. intelligence has predicted that Ukraine may run out air defense missiles by the end of the month."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/20/ukraine-weapons-industry-domestic-production/#

No point in throwing good money after bad. I'm generally not a fan of politicians on both sides of the aisle, but in this case, I'll give a tepid clap for the Republicans. The writing's been on the wall that Ukraine's losing regardless of how much money and weapons is thrown their way for a while now. Here's a good article on the subject written back in February, from a former CIA officer and a retired U.S. Army Colonel:

Throwing Good Money After Bad in Ukraine? | Consortium News

 

[Cypress]

No point in throwing good money after bad. I'm generally not a fan of politicians on both sides of the aisle, but in this case, I'll give a tepid clap for the Republicans. The writing's been on the wall that Ukraine's losing regardless of how much money and weapons is thrown their way for a while now. Here's a good article on the subject written back in February, from a former CIA officer and a retired U.S. Army Colonel:

Throwing Good Money After Bad in Ukraine? | Consortium News

Ukrainians are still willing to fight for their freedom, and have demonstrated they can be effective when properly supplied and supported.

I always suspected American willpower was weak, and no match for Russian tenacity. Putin was smart in waiting for MAGA to be given a driver's seat.

The trajectory of this war now almost completely depends on Republicans.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Ukrainians are still willing to fight for their freedom, and have demonstrated they can be effective when properly supplied and supported.

I always suspected American willpower was weak, and no match for Russian tenacity. Putin was smart in waiting for MAGA to be given a driver's seat.

The trajectory of this war now almost completely depends on Republicans.

Ukrainian oligarchs are still willing to be mercenaries for the dying American Empire....they being greedy moronic fucks.

But this war is over....the Americans lost yet another one.

 

[Scott]

No point in throwing good money after bad. I'm generally not a fan of politicians on both sides of the aisle, but in this case, I'll give a tepid clap for the Republicans. The writing's been on the wall that Ukraine's losing regardless of how much money and weapons is thrown their way for a while now. Here's a good article on the subject written back in February, from a former CIA officer and a retired U.S. Army Colonel:

Throwing Good Money After Bad in Ukraine? | Consortium News

Ukrainians are still willing to fight for their freedom, and have demonstrated they can be effective when properly supplied and supported.

There's a lot of evidence that the only reason Russia even -started- its incursion into Ukraine back in February 2022 is because Ukraine had started bombing the Donbass region and had made it clear they intended to take Crimea soon after. A month after the war started, Russia said it was willing to leave all of Ukraine if Ukraine agreed to leave Crimea be, let the Donbass region be more independent from Ukraine and agree not to join NATO. The west told Ukraine not to take the deal and now Ukraine's a lot worse off, having lost a lot more territory since then. The irony though, is that I see no reason to believe that Ukraine couldn't still make a deal that could save it from losing even more territory. So no, this is not about fighting for freedom, this is about trying to get all the territory Ukraine has lost since shortly after the Euromaidan coup.

I always suspected American willpower was weak, and no match for Russian tenacity.

More like some Americans are finally waking up to the fact that there are better ways of spending billions of dollars to prop up a corrupt regime half way around the world. Some reading material you may find interesting from March:
Failed ICJ case against Russia backfires, paves way for genocide charges against Ukraine | Mint Press News

Quoting an interesting part:
**
Western media universally ignored or distorted the substance of the ICJ rulings. When outlets did acknowledge the judgments, they misrepresented the first by focusing prominently on the accepted charges while downplaying all dismissed allegations. The second was wildly spun as a significant loss for Moscow. The BBC and others focused on how the Court agreed that “part” of Ukraine’s case could proceed. That this “part” is the question of whether Kiev itself committed genocide in Donbas post-2014 was unmentioned.
**

 

[Hawkeye10]

There's a lot of evidence that the only reason Russia even -started- its incursion into Ukraine back in February 2022 is because Ukraine had started bombing the Donbass region and had made it clear they intended to take Crimea soon after. A month after the war started, Russia said it was willing to leave all of Ukraine if Ukraine agreed to leave Crimea be, let the Donbass region be more independent from Ukraine and agree not to join NATO. The west told Ukraine not to take the deal and now Ukraine's a lot worse off, having lost a lot more territory since then. The irony though, is that I see no reason to believe that Ukraine couldn't still make a deal that could save it from losing even more territory. So no, this is not about fighting for freedom, this is about trying to get all the territory Ukraine has lost since shortly after the Euromaidan coup.



More like some Americans are finally waking up to the fact that there are better ways of spending billions of dollars to prop up a corrupt regime half way around the world.

Ukraine had been bombing the Donbass for about a decade....the Minsk Accords were straight up fraud by the West.

We are the abusers in this story, and we are going down...there is a new Sheriff in town.

 

[Stone]

There's a lot of evidence that the only reason Russia even -started- its incursion into Ukraine back in February 2022 is because Ukraine had started bombing the Donbass region and had made it clear they intended to take Crimea soon after. A month after the war started, Russia said it was willing to leave all of Ukraine if Ukraine agreed to leave Crimea be, let the Donbass region be more independent from Ukraine and agree not to join NATO. The west told Ukraine not to take the deal and now Ukraine's a lot worse off, having lost a lot more territory since then. The irony though, is that I see no reason to believe that Ukraine couldn't still make a deal that could save it from losing even more territory. So no, this is not about fighting for freedom, this is about trying to get all the territory Ukraine has lost since shortly after the Euromaidan coup.



More like some Americans are finally waking up to the fact that there are better ways of spending billions of dollars to prop up a corrupt regime half way around the world. Some reading material you may find interesting from March:
Failed ICJ case against Russia backfires, paves way for genocide charges against Ukraine | Mint Press News

Quoting an interesting part:
**
Western media universally ignored or distorted the substance of the ICJ rulings. When outlets did acknowledge the judgments, they misrepresented the first by focusing prominently on the accepted charges while downplaying all dismissed allegations. The second was wildly spun as a significant loss for Moscow. The BBC and others focused on how the Court agreed that “part” of Ukraine’s case could proceed. That this “part” is the question of whether Kiev itself committed genocide in Donbas post-2014 was unmentioned.
**

BEST post in the thread and totally accurate. I am no Russia lover as some of us have been accused of simply because we do not blindly believe the bullshit propaganda put out by the pathetic Biden regime. The truth is ,...the U.S had a huge hand in antagonizing this war,....shame on us. From the beginning this has been a classic case of a war that simply did not have to happen. All the lives lost, all the American treasure lost,.... FOR NOTHING. Honestly,....I believe that one of the main driving reasons why so many D voters have cheer lead this war from the beginning was simply because they believed that it would give the old tried and true war time BUMP Biden needed to get re elected for a second term . THEY WERE WRONG. Just think about that a second........so much death and destruction brought on only because people thought it would help get their mush head of a sad excuse of a president re elected? How sick. I dont EVER want to hear about how much the left values Human life EVER AGAIN. Its all bullshit as the slaughter that did not have to be in Ukraine clearly shows. In their twisted world view,...political agendas RULE ALL,....Human life be damned. Enuff is ENUFF!

 

[Bigdog]

"
Flashback: Obama's debate zinger on Romney's '1980s ...

Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com › ... › Fact Checker
Mar 20, 2014 — During the debates, Obama accused Mitt Romney of a '1980s' foreign policy even though the Cold War is 'over'

It's time to admit it: Mitt Romney was right about Russia

CNN
https://www.cnn.com › 2022/02/22 › politics › mitt-ro...
Feb 22, 2022 — “Russia, this is, without question, our number one geopolitical foe,” Romney, who would be the Republican presidential nominee in the 2012 race ..."


Biden is so petty, he allowed Ukraine to be destroyed as punishment for Zelensky NOT supporting the Trump impeachment.



Ukraine is Europe's responsibility. They are not doing enough.

 

[Scott]

"
Flashback: Obama's debate zinger on Romney's '1980s ...

Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com › ... › Fact Checker
Mar 20, 2014 — During the debates, Obama accused Mitt Romney of a '1980s' foreign policy even though the Cold War is 'over'

It's time to admit it: Mitt Romney was right about Russia

CNN
https://www.cnn.com › 2022/02/22 › politics › mitt-ro...
Feb 22, 2022 — “Russia, this is, without question, our number one geopolitical foe,” Romney, who would be the Republican presidential nominee in the 2012 race ..."


Biden is so petty, he allowed Ukraine to be destroyed as punishment for Zelensky NOT supporting the Trump impeachment.


Ukraine is Europe's responsibility. They are not doing enough.

I see no evidence that if the U.S. had not helped foster the Euromaidan coup in 2014, the cold war would have remained ancient history. But the U.S. -did- help foster the Euromaidan coup and the rest is history.

Some reading material you may find interesting:
U.S Sponsored Neo-Nazi Ukraine 2014 EuroMaidan. The Hiring of Snipers | Global Research

 

[Bigdog]

I see no evidence that if the U.S. had not helped foster the Euromaidan coup in 2014, the cold war would have remained ancient history. But the U.S. -did- help foster the Euromaidan coup and the rest is history.

Some reading material you may find interesting:
U.S Sponsored Neo-Nazi Ukraine 2014 EuroMaidan. The Hiring of Snipers | Global Research

Yanukovych was a Russian puppet. The Ukrainian parliament had already approved the Free Trade agreement with Europe.

 

[serendipity]

Yanukovych was a Russian puppet. The Ukrainian parliament had already approved the Free Trade agreement with Europe.

Yanukovych was incredibly unpopular, he was perceived to be a Russian puppet by the people. It truly makes me laugh when some fool claims that he was the people's choice that's just bullshit.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

And Republicans haven't passed a dime in military aid for Ukraine since winning the House back in 2022.


"In recent weeks, Ukraine’s troops have lost ground in the east, as they struggle with dwindling numbers of shells, bullets and even soldiers. And the situation could soon become much worse. U.S. intelligence has predicted that Ukraine may run out air defense missiles by the end of the month."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/20/ukraine-weapons-industry-domestic-production/#

Republicans have their own separate alliance with Trump and Putin.

 

[Scott]

I see no evidence that if the U.S. had not helped foster the Euromaidan coup in 2014, the cold war would have remained ancient history. But the U.S. -did- help foster the Euromaidan coup and the rest is history.

Some reading material you may find interesting:
U.S Sponsored Neo-Nazi Ukraine 2014 EuroMaidan. The Hiring of Snipers | Global Research

Yanukovych was a Russian puppet.

I've seen no evidence of that.

The Ukrainian parliament had already approved the Free Trade agreement with Europe.

Chris Hedges wrote an article that touched on Yanukovych's decision to reject the European Union's offer. Quoting:

**
Yanukovych wanted economic integration with the European Union, but not at the expense of economic and political ties with Russia.
**

Full article:
Chris Hedges: They Lied About Afghanistan. They Lied About Iraq. And They Are Lying About Ukraine. | Scheerpost

The Reuters article Hedges links to makes it abundantly clear that Yanukovych was trying to balance the interests of Eastern and Western Ukraine. He clearly failed, but I suspect the reason is that it had become impossible to do so. Quoting from Reuters' article:

**
KIEV (Reuters) - On September 4, Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovich called a meeting of his political party for the first time in three years, summoning members to an old Soviet-era cinema called Zoryany in Kiev.

For three hours Yanukovich cajoled and bullied anyone who pushed for Ukraine to have closer ties to Russia. A handful of deputies from his Party of Regions complained that their businesses in Ukraine's Russian-speaking east would suffer if Yanukovich didn't agree to closer ties with Russia. That set him off.

"Forget about it ... forever!" he shouted at them, according to people who attended the meeting. Instead the president argued for an agreement to deepen trade and other cooperation with the European Union.

Some deputies implored him to change his mind, people who attended the meeting told Reuters. Businessmen warned that a deal with the EU would provoke Russia - Ukraine's former master in Soviet times - into toughening an economic blockade on Ukrainian goods. Yanukovich stood firm.

"We will pursue integration with Europe," he barked back, according to three people who attended the meeting. He seemed dead set on looking west.

Less than three months later Yanukovich spurned the EU, embraced Russian President Vladimir Putin and struck a deal on December 17 for a bailout of his country. Russia will invest $15 billion in Ukraine's government debt and reduce by about a third the price that Naftogaz, Ukraine's national energy company, pays for Russian gas.

It is not clear what Yanukovich agreed to give Russia in return, but two sources close to him said he may have had to surrender some control over Ukraine's gas pipeline network.

What caused the U-turn by the leadership of a country of 46 million people that occupies a strategic position between the EU and Russia?

Public and private arm-twisting by Putin, including threats to Ukraine's economy and Yanukovich's political future, played a significant part. But the unwillingness of the EU and International Monetary Fund to be flexible in their demands of Ukraine also had an effect, making them less attractive partners.

And amid this international tug-of-war, Yanukovich's personal antipathy towards his jailed political rival, Yulia Tymoshenko, was a factor, according to Volodymyr Oliynyk, an ally of Yanukovich and a prominent member of the ruling party. The EU accused Ukraine of treating Tymoshenko unfairly - to the annoyance of Yanukovich, according to his supporters and one of her lawyers.

The upshot is that Yanukovich, 63, has split his party and his country. Some leading party officials have deserted him. His hopes of re-election in 2015 - if there is a free and fair vote - look weak.
**

Full article:
Special Report: Why Ukraine spurned the EU and embraced Russia | Reuters

 

[Scott]

Yanukovych was incredibly unpopular, he was perceived to be a Russian puppet by the people. It truly makes me laugh when some fool claims that he was the people's choice that's just bullshit.

Are you suggesting that he wasn't elected President of Ukraine? He had the difficult if not impossible task of trying to balance the wishes of Western and Eastern Ukraine. As I think I made clear in my post to Bigdog, he failed, but not for lack of trying.

 

[Scott]

Republicans have their own separate alliance with Trump and Putin.

I think it's more that some Republicans have come to the conclusion that spending any more money in the Ukraine war is just throwing good money after bad. I even referenced an article with this idea in post #2 of this thread.

 

[Cypress]

Republicans have their own separate alliance with Trump and Putin.

I don't think rank and file Republicans actually have their own independent belief system.

They are just going to jump on the bandwagon of whatever their MAGA Messiahs tell them to believe.

If Trump and MAGA Mike Johnson tell them to abandon Ukraine to totalitarian Russia, MAGAs will start bending themselves into pretzels to justify taking the pro-Putin approach

 

[Cypress]

I think it's more that some Republicans have come to the conclusion that spending any more money in the Ukraine war is just throwing good money after bad. I even referenced an article with this idea in post #2 of this thread.

They didn't just come to this conclusion recently.

Republicans haven't passed a dime in military for Ukraine since winning the House back in 2022.

Republican 'willpower' against Kremlin brutality barely lasted 12 months.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

it's a shame Biden has never imposed sanctions that had some teeth in them.......this war could have been ended years ago......

 

[serendipity]

Are you suggesting that he wasn't elected President of Ukraine? He had the difficult if not impossible task of trying to balance the wishes of Western and Eastern Ukraine. As I think I made clear in my post to Bigdog, he failed, but not for lack of trying.

He was detested by many in Ukraine, if you don't know that then further discussion is pointless.

 

[Bigdog]

I've seen no evidence of that.


Less than three months later Yanukovich spurned the EU, embraced Russian President Vladimir Putin and struck a deal on December 17 for a bailout of his country. Russia will invest $15 billion in Ukraine's government debt and reduce by about a third the price that Naftogaz, Ukraine's national energy company, pays for Russian gas.

I think you just posted the evidence, Phoenyx.