Voltaire and God

Served Mass a long while back. The priest mentioned once that someone had mentioned that he was an atheist. The priest's retort, "You are not smart enough to be an atheist."

He might have said that to you if he read this thread.
 
Obtenebrator said:
Too bad you didn't remember any of it.
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But I do. Be careful about hyperbole. It makes you look like a fool.

Obtenebrator said:
No shit.
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Yup...no shit.

Obtenebrator said:
In your imagination, Gramps
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It is your imagination that I am not.

Obtenebrator said:
I allowed you to be an agnostic.
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YOU allowed me to be an agnostic???

Dream much?

I see you never learned the Golden Rule.
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Illogical. C'mon. You can do better. Want me to coach you?



Obtenebrator said:
You could really use some basic education in values and ethics.
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You could use some basic education.
 
Obtenebrator said:
Yes. As opposed to YOU who tells me I'm not an atheist because you don't understand atheism.
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YOU are getting more and more illogical with each post. Don't let me get to you spo much. Stay calm...and think about what you are writing.

YOU did not allow me to be an agnostic. I was agnostic decades before I ever spoke to you for the first time. If you mean that you are not contesting the fact that I am agnostic...that is what you should have said. You should be precise in your wording.

I understand atheism. You apparently think I do not because I differ from you on various items.

Stay cool. We can discuss them...and have fun doing so.
 
Ross Dolan said:
YOU are getting more and more illogical with each post. Don't let me get to you spo much. Stay calm...and think about what you are writing.

YOU did not allow me to be an agnostic. I was agnostic decades before I ever spoke to you for the first time. If you mean that you are not contesting the fact that I am agnostic...that is what you should have said. You should be precise in your wording.

I understand atheism. You apparently think I do not because I differ from you on various items.

Stay cool. We can discuss them...and have fun doing so.
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LOL. Says the guy who doesn't even understand the fuckin' TRANSITIVE PROPERTY.

Wow.
 
Obtenebrator said:
LOL. Says the guy who doesn't even understand the fuckin' TRANSITIVE PROPERTY.

Wow.
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Do you understand perseveration?

Because you are perseverating now.

Ease back.

Things are going to be okay.

You'll take your beating...and be the better for it.
 
Ross Dolan said:
Do you understand perseveration?

Because you are perseverating now.

Ease back.

Things are going to be okay.

You'll take your beating...and be the better for it.
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I have answered you question.

If you ask me which is more likely: that no god exists or that some gods exist I will say that the likelihood is that no gods exist.

If you ask me which is more likely: that one god exists or that many gods exist I will say that the likelihood is equal. Both are zero.

If you ask me which is more likely: that no god exists of that many gods exist I will say the likelihood is that no gods exist.

If you ask me which is more likely: that one god exists or that some gods exist I will say that they are equal, both are zero.


How many different ways do you need this answered?
 
Ross Dolan said:
Served Mass a long while back. The priest mentioned once that someone had mentioned that he was an atheist. The priest's retort, "You are not smart enough to be an atheist."
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Actually if you read my posts you'd see that I EXPLICITLY take into account my limitations. That indeed I NEVER made the claim "There is no God" because I could be wrong. That is why I am the kind of atheist who simply fails to believe in God.

The difference is too subtle for you...because in the parlance of your priest: you aren't smart enough.

Ross Dolan said:
He might have said that to you if he read this thread.
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Except you never understood was was being explained to you.
 
Ross Dolan said:
Yeah...as a blind guess. Just as religious people blindly guess that there is a god.

Smart thing to do is to accept that you do not know.
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That's where you are wrong! True believers have a personal relationship with Jesus through the Holy Spirit, because you're Spiritually blind,you assume everyone is Spiritually blind!
 
Margot said:
So you ASSUME because you don't have the Holy Spirit it must not exist!
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I did not say it must not exist. I also did not say that it does not exist.

I don't assume anything about it.

Your blind guess that it does exist...may be the correct one.
 
Margot said:
That's where you are wrong! True believers have a personal relationship with Jesus through the Holy Spirit, because you're Spiritually blind,you assume everyone is Spiritually blind!
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Yeah...in conversations with religious people...we often hear that they have a "personal relationship with Jesus."

You keep accussing me of "assuming" things. Why is that?
 
Margot said:
So you ASSUME because you don't have the Holy Spirit it must not exist!
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The Holy Spirit may very well exist. But given that I have no evidence for it, why would I assume it does? Just because YOU say it does? Who are you?

Just because people CLAIM things doesn't mean I'm under any obligation whatsoever to believe it or even care about it enough to be "undecided" about it's existence.

It is up to those making the positive claim to provide the evidence.
 
Margot said:
That's where you are wrong! True believers have a personal relationship with Jesus through the Holy Spirit, because you're Spiritually blind,you assume everyone is Spiritually blind!
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And that Holy Spirit is what, exactly? The third leg of the Trinity, I assume?
 
Margot said:
No! It means when you've actually met God through the Holy Spirit ,how can you NOT believe!
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What did your god look like? Did he have any good advice?

Next time you meet him, could you ask him about unnecessary suffering in this world?
 
domer76 said:
What did your god look like? Did he have any good advice?

Next time you meet him, could you ask him about unnecessary suffering in this world?
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I think what Margot is actually saying is reasonable enough: "Given that someone feels they have met the Holy Spirit or have the Holy Spirit, how could they not believe?"

This is a reasonable position if one feels that the Holy Spirit is with them. I don't believe it is, as I originally thought, the standard "You have to believe before you can believe" which is a common religious theme. But not necessarily what Margot seems to be saying.

As for the "problem of evil" I would like to hear the answer as well. I'm generally "OK" with Leibniz's "best of all possible worlds" scenario but I can see some potential critiques such as "given that God can and did create EVERYTHING it would seem to be a limitation on God that He would be required in any way to create an imperfect world free of pain and suffering. The obvious answer is that He wanted it to contain pain and suffering. The alternative (and religious view) would be that mankind thwarted God's plans at perfection through their misapplication of free will. But then one would have to wonder why God wouldn't see that eventuality. It all seems to point to a God who is at least "OK" with the pain and suffering to some greater or lesser extent.
 
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