We're All Job Doomers Now

Care4all said:
Morgan Stanley IS THE BIGGEST OIL SPECULATOR out there...of course they keep predicting $150 a barrel oil and $200 dollar oil....they own oil and ARE THE ONES that have manipulated the market, due to what some call the Enron loophole that (R) Senator Graham put in a bill in the middle of the night back in 2000.

The financial institutions are the ones DRIVING oil prices UP to WELL over and ABOVE supply and demand and the deflation of the dollar...(Which they did on the dot.com boom, and they did on the housing boom...)

They need to shut the hell up with their "predicted oil prices per barrel"....

And Congress needs to close the loophole TODAY, not yesterday.

and good morning Darla :)

Care
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Hi Care. :)
 
Superfreak said:
um... that thing says play time is 2 hours 18 minutes. I don't think I will be listening to two hours of politicians rambling.
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yep, that seems to be the problem with ALL OF AMERICA now a days....NO ONE has the time, including the media, to delve in to the reality of what is taking place.... :(

And I can understand this with the busy lives most lead...

This doesn't negate the fact that we seem to be a country that lives on soundbites with little substance.....

here is a little cut about the meeting, which does not go nearly enough in depth imo....

(CNNMoney.com) -- Speculation in the commodity markets took much of the blame for skyrocketing energy and food prices at a Senate hearing Tuesday

"This unbridled growth raises justifiable concerns that speculative demand - divorced from market realities - is driving food and energy price inflation, and causing a lot of human suffering," said Sen. Joseph Lieberman, I-Conn., chairman of the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs committee that held the hearing.

With oil approaching $130 a barrel and a global food crisis looming, the panel heard testimony from experts about how speculative investment by institutional investors and hedge funds may be contributing to food and energy price inflation.

"Index speculators' trading strategies amount to virtual hoarding via the commodities futures markets," Michael Masters, a former hedge fund trader, told the committee in prepared testimony.

"Institutional investors are buying up essential items that exist in limited quantities for the sole purpose of reaping speculative profits," he said.

As the nation's financial markets have struggled with housing and credit problems, big Wall Street funds looking for more reliable returns have increasingly shifted money from the stock market to the commodities futures markets, fueling dramatic spikes in the price of everything from a barrel of oil to a bushel of wheat.

These funds have been blamed for upsetting the balance of the commodities markets. Though speculators have always existed in the commodities trade, critics say the recent influx of speculative investment has caused the price of raw materials to become disconnected from the economic fundamentals of supply and demand.

Masters recommended that Congress move to close the "swaps loophole," which speculators use to roll over monthly futures contracts, allowing them to "effectively circumvent position limits," he said.

Additionally, Masters said existing regulations should be modified to prohibit pension funds - seeking investment growth they can't find in other markets - from speculative investment in commodities.

continued: http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/20/news/economy/senate_commodities/index.htm?postversion=2008052010
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Topspin said:
you people are going to come apart if we ever have hard times, this is a picnic.
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So, we've gone from "packed restaurants" and "middle class is fat & happy," to "well, at least this isn't the Great Depression," in 6 months flat?

People are struggling out there, tops - mightily. I know it's peachy there in the investor class, but these are tough, tough times for a lot of people, most of whom you have admitted that you don't care about, anyway...so why do you even partake in these discussions?
 
cause some tool in congress says it don't make it so. Uneducated people need congress to tell them what to think.
 
Topspin said:
cause some tool in congress says it don't make it so. Uneducated people need congress to tell them what to think.
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Top, this is a very tough time for a lot of people. The housing market all but collapsed. There are a LOT of home builders that are going bankrupt. There are a lot more that are stretched to the limit.

And all the suppliers for the home building market are now slapped with a serious drop in business.

My brother's engineering firm is having a tough time. He is intelligent and educated, but the lack of business is hurting him.


To say that this is just words from a tool in congress is toignore the hard facts about our economy.
 
Solitary, there is always somebody struggling even in the best of times.
yes, times are tough. All I'm saying is we aren't even in recession yet. I'm 48 I've been through exponentially worse.
 
Topspin said:
Solitary, there is always somebody struggling even in the best of times.
yes, times are tough. All I'm saying is we aren't even in recession yet. I'm 48 I've been through exponentially worse.
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You and I are the same age.

And these times that were "exponentially worse", were they actually worse or was it that you were younger and less financially secure?

To try and blow this off as "its not that bad" is to ignore the problems and the situation.

We could get much much worse, but still be better than the Great Depression. Would that be your answer then? "Its not as bad as is was in '29".
 
My answer would be. I'm an accountant and was a bartender in college in the 80's. I've always made good money.
I base the times on the economy, Any recession we've had since the 60's is way worse than this. If you don't think so you don't study economics much.
 
Care4all said:
yep, that seems to be the problem with ALL OF AMERICA now a days....NO ONE has the time, including the media, to delve in to the reality of what is taking place.... :(

And I can understand this with the busy lives most lead...

This doesn't negate the fact that we seem to be a country that lives on soundbites with little substance.....

here is a little cut about the meeting, which does not go nearly enough in depth imo....
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listening to a bunch of idiots in DC ramble for two hours is not my idea of an efficient way to learn. Give me the text and I will gladly read through the bullshit blustering and sort out that 90% to get to the 10% where they actually make a point. Then we can debate the validity of their comments.
 
Topspin said:
My answer would be. I'm an accountant and was a bartender in college in the 80's. I've always made good money.
I base the times on the economy, Any recession we've had since the 60's is way worse than this. If you don't think so you don't study economics much.
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Um.... 73/74 was worse than this, but no other downturn was as painful as this...

The reason being is that the housing market and equity markets were not BOTH having problems at the same time. So in the bad market of March 2000-March 2003, home equity provided a source of gain for many and thus the economy was not hit as hard. Had 9/11 not occured, the equity downturn likely would have ended in late 2001 early 2002 rather than extending into 2003.

We currently are seeing....

1) high grain prices (thanks to idiots in DC who think using food for fuel is a good idea)

2) high oil prices (thanks fed for keeping interest rates near 40 year lows for so long)

3) rising credit card debt (think housing was bad... wait till the credit card debt blows up)

4) foreclosures are pretty well priced into the market, but real estate (residential) is not likely to rebound back towards rising valuations (in most parts of the country)

5) Equity markets stuck in a trading range.

I would say this is the worst since 73/74. Stagnant economic growth, rising inflation.... not a good combo. We need to strengthen the US dollar now. The fed did its job curbing housing by lowering rates. But now they need to reverse trend and fight inflation.
 
Superfreak said:
Um.... 73/74 was worse than this, but no other downturn was as painful as this...

The reason being is that the housing market and equity markets were not BOTH having problems at the same time. So in the bad market of March 2000-March 2003, home equity provided a source of gain for many and thus the economy was not hit as hard. Had 9/11 not occured, the equity downturn likely would have ended in late 2001 early 2002 rather than extending into 2003.

We currently are seeing....

1) high grain prices (thanks to idiots in DC who think using food for fuel is a good idea)

2) high oil prices (thanks fed for keeping interest rates near 40 year lows for so long)

3) rising credit card debt (think housing was bad... wait till the credit card debt blows up)

4) foreclosures are pretty well priced into the market, but real estate (residential) is not likely to rebound back towards rising valuations (in most parts of the country)

5) Equity markets stuck in a trading range.

I would say this is the worst since 73/74. Stagnant economic growth, rising inflation.... not a good combo. We need to strengthen the US dollar now. The fed did its job curbing housing by lowering rates. But now they need to reverse trend and fight inflation.
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Oh yeah…well you’re fat!
 
every recession was worse, freak you prob were to young to go through them as a worker but you studied it in college. Job losses are usually 200,000 mo in a recession it's laughable to say this is worse. The average family's energy budget is half what it used to be 25 yrs ago due to efficiencey.
 
Solitary said:
Top, this is a very tough time for a lot of people. The housing market all but collapsed. There are a LOT of home builders that are going bankrupt. There are a lot more that are stretched to the limit.

And all the suppliers for the home building market are now slapped with a serious drop in business.

My brother's engineering firm is having a tough time. He is intelligent and educated, but the lack of business is hurting him.


To say that this is just words from a tool in congress is toignore the hard facts about our economy.
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That's what assholes do, ignore facts in preference for the destruction of america's people.
 
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