What has Bush killed.

[Socrtease]

I agree with vouchers on the principle that you should have the most choice that is realistically possible on how your tax dollars are spent.

If you feel that your child's public school is failing to deliver a satisfactory level of education, I support your right to use your tax dollars to take him/her elsewhere to get the quality of education you deserve.

I also support parent being able to take THEIR tax dollars and sending their kids to a private school. But try doing that on the money that you paid in taxes that ACTUALLY went to education. Not sending your kids to Sidwell on that.

 

[Epicurus]

I also support parent being able to take THEIR tax dollars and sending their kids to a private school. But try doing that on the money that you paid in taxes that ACTUALLY went to education. Not sending your kids to Sidwell on that.

No, but instituting voucher programs would create a market for effective, low cost private schools.

I believe that even if the vouchers would not pay for 100% of private schooling costs at your local bourgeouise private school, a huge number of less expensive private schools would crop up to meet parents' demand for non-public, affordable education.

This could bring the better education of accountable, private schools for the money that you are already paying in taxes to support your failing public one.

Note: I use "failing public schools" and "better private schools" not because all public schools are bad or all private schools are great, but because those are the only circumstances in which you would consider using your voucher. If your public school continues to deliver satisfactory performance and private schools in your area cost slightly more than your voucher, there would be no reason to change schools.

That's why I think the voucher program will not cause the devastation to public schools that the left predicts. Schools that realize they are experiencing a high number of voucher transfers will take cost effective steps to mediate the situation.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I also support parent being able to take THEIR tax dollars and sending their kids to a private school. But try doing that on the money that you paid in taxes that ACTUALLY went to education. Not sending your kids to Sidwell on that.

You take the amount that would be given to the public school system on your childs behalf and let the parents decide what school to give it to.

Or would you prefer the public education system only get what the parents of the kids contributed in taxes? Because that line of logic would eliminate education for many kids.

 

[Jarod]

You take the amount that would be given to the public school system on your childs behalf and let the parents decide what school to give it to.

Or would you prefer the public education system only get what the parents of the kids contributed in taxes? Because that line of logic would eliminate education for many kids.

Hell, just cut taxes and do away with public schools. If parents want to educate there kids great. If not so what.

 

[Damocles]

Hell, just cut taxes and do away with public schools. If parents want to educate there kids great. If not so what.

Strawman Alert! Whoop! Whoop! Whoop!

Had this been an actual argument, it would actually have addressed a point, given a reason for it, and addressed the issue.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread... updates will follow.

 

[Damocles]

Hell, just cut taxes and do away with public schools. If parents want to educate there kids great. If not so what.

Yeah, homeschooled kids win all those spelling contests...

Nobody has suggested this, it is weak to pretend that they have.

 

[Jarod]

Yeah, homeschooled kids win all those spelling contests...

Nobody has suggested this, it is weak to pretend that they have.

No, but it is the logical extention of the voucher argument, and I belive Bush and his people's ultimate goal.

 

[cawacko]

No, but it is the logical extention of the voucher argument, and I belive Bush and his people's ultimate goal.

You really don't understand the voucher argument then and unfortunately you are not the only one. The true losers are the kids stuck in failing schools who have no other options.

 

[Damocles]

No, but it is the logical extention of the voucher argument, and I belive Bush and his people's ultimate goal.

It is not a logical extension of the voucher plan. That is rubbish, total rubbish. There is nothing in vouchers that says stop taxing and let all people pay directly. That is probably the most disingenuous argument I have heard on this topic to date.

 

[Jarod]

If you argue to take the state out of it, why not take everyone out except families?

 

[Damocles]

If you argue to take the state out of it, why not take everyone out except families?

Nobody argued to take the state out of it either. That is another strawman.

What part of the state giving a voucher to a school removes the state from the equation?

What part of the state creating a standard of education levels takes them from the equation?

You are either being totally disingenuous or have no understanding of how voucher programs function.

 

[Jarod]

Nobody argued to take the state out of it either. That is another strawman.

What part of the state giving a voucher to a school removes the state from the equation?

What part of the state creating a standard of education levels takes them from the equation?

You are either being totally disingenuous or have no understanding of how voucher programs function.

I am for it as long as the standards are strong and uphold a legitatmate basic level of education. My problem is when you start requireing families to add money to that voucher in order to get a standard basic level of education.

Remember I went to Private Schools.

 

[evince]

What funds do the vouchers come from?

They come from the funds needed to run the puplic schools.

You start giving vocuher money to private schools and you will hand our education system to the free market. The only kids who will get a decent education will be the children of the rich. The schools will become so expensive that only the wealthy families will be able to afford a good education. There will be scandals and scams that will bilk families and the government. Public schools will be starved in the mean time. It is without a doubt one of the stupidest ideas to come along in a long time.

 

[Damocles]

I am for it as long as the standards are strong and uphold a legitatmate basic level of education. My problem is when you start requireing families to add money to that voucher in order to get a standard basic level of education.

Remember I went to Private Schools.

Nobody said that they would require families to add to the voucher. If they choose a public school they would add nothing. If they choose a school more expensive than that they would have to spend a bit of their own money.

This is another strawman based on a total misrepresentation of how vouchers do work in areas where they are working, and a blissful ignorance of the craptacular job our current system does.

 

[cawacko]

What funds do the vouchers come from?

They come from the funds needed to run the puplic schools.

You start giving vocuher money to private schools and you will hand our education system to the free market. The only kids who will get a decent education will be the children of the rich. The schools will become so expensive that only the wealthy families will be able to afford a good education. There will be scandals and scams that will bilk families and the government. Public schools will be starved in the mean time. It is without a doubt one of the stupidest ideas to come along in a long time.

Whether on purpose or not you do not understand how vouchers would work. It is the complete opposite of making education available only to rich families. It is about helping low income kids who are stuck in failing schools. I would love to explain in more detail but it doesn't seem worth the time to someone really does not get it.

 

[evince]

Stuck in failing schools?
Who is going to open a school in the inner city?

These will be businesses whos main reason to exsist is to make a profit.

This is why we started puplic schools in the first place.

 

[cawacko]

Stuck in failing schools?
Who is going to open a school in the inner city?

These will be businesses whos main reason to exsist is to make a profit.

This is why we started puplic schools in the first place.

It's not about turning our school system into a for profit venture. Middle class families can move if they do not like the school system in their neighborhood. Poor families cannot do that. Giving children options who are from poor families is the idea behind vouchers. It's also a hope to inject some element of competition into the school system.

Right now the public school system is a virtual monopoly. It has no desire to change because it doesn't have to. Everyone speaks of wanting good schools but all we do is throw more money into the school system while nothing changes. The status quo sucks.

Vouchers would give kids options such as other public schools or private schools in their area. Vouchers are not intended as the be all fix to our school challenges. They are intended to help those children most in need. The results from the limited number of cities where they have been tried bear that out.

 

[Jarod]

Nobody said that they would require families to add to the voucher. If they choose a public school they would add nothing. If they choose a school more expensive than that they would have to spend a bit of their own money.

This is another strawman based on a total misrepresentation of how vouchers do work in areas where they are working, and a blissful ignorance of the craptacular job our current system does.

The question is, would there be options for people who could not afford to add to the voucher to get a good education?

 

[evince]

What so many of you who claim these are great ideas refuse to see is that it is merely a scam to further dismantle the united states into a semi illiterate mass of people without hope of a better life.

We had a GREAT puplic school system which was the envy of the world once. WHY NOT ASK YOUR SELVES WHAT HAPPENED?

 

[cawacko]

What so many of you who claim these are great ideas refuse to see is that it is merely a scam to further dismantle the united states into a semi illiterate mass of people without hope of a better life.

We had a GREAT puplic school system which was the envy of the world once. WHY NOT ASK YOUR SELVES WHAT HAPPENED?

Why don't you tell us what has happened over the last 30 years Desh to our education system?