What if Western civilization never got rid of slavery?

[PoliTalker]

Hello Dutch Uncle,

Back in those days a family of five lived in a 1200 sqft two-bdrm home, detached one car garage and one car. Now Americans are spending themselves so deeply into debt buying big homes, multiple big cars and the latest TV sets. I've had several copilots who graduated all of their training owing more college debt than I paid for my house in 1998. Everyone is doing this voluntarily, not because they are slaves to capitalism.

If We the People increase tax, it should be used to pay off debt, not create more debt. Find better solutions without reaching into people's pockets first.

I am not proposing the people should be taxed more. It is the oligarchs who should pay for the problems they have caused.

As society improves and the standard of living rises, the people of society should be able to enjoy the benefits of what they have worked for. Not just the few at the top.

Improperly regulated capitalism has resulted in extreme wealth inequality.

Society is working as hard as ever, but the wealth is ending up in ever larger piles of the few at the top. The income gains of the richest are in the thousands of percent while those in the middle struggle to even do as well as their middle class parents.

Capitalism constantly sells them the message that they should be able to enjoy it all, and freely encourages them to take on ever more debt to do it. And we are surprised when bubbles burst?

Where are those modest new homes even being built? Capitalism asks where's the money in building modest homes? They tend to go large now because profits are larger. Who wants to build bread and butter houses when there is so much more money to be made building marble and custom windows in gated communities? Same work, larger profits.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Hello Dutch Uncle,

I am not proposing the people should be taxed more. It is the oligarchs who should pay for the problems they have caused.

As society improves and the standard of living rises, the people of society should be able to enjoy the benefits of what they have worked for. Not just the few at the top.

Improperly regulated capitalism has resulted in extreme wealth inequality.

Society is working as hard as ever, but the wealth is ending up in ever larger piles of the few at the top. The income gains of the richest are in the thousands of percent while those in the middle struggle to even do as well as their middle class parents.

Capitalism constantly sells them the message that they should be able to enjoy it all, and freely encourages them to take on ever more debt to do it. And we are surprised when bubbles burst?

Agreed that the shift in wealth to a relative few is not a good situation for the nation. However, calling that slavery is distorting the truth.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/299460/distribution-of-wealth-in-the-united-states/
In the fourth quarter of 2020, the share of net wealth in the United States held by the top 10 percent increased slightly from the previous quarter to 69.6 percent. At the beginning of 1990, this figure stood at 60.5 percent. During this period, the wealth share of the 90th to 99th percentile remained broadly constant at around 37 percent, while the share of the top one percent increased from 23.5 percent of net wealth to 31.4 percent.


https://policyadvice.net/insurance/insights/average-american-income/
What percentage of the US population lives paycheck by paycheck?
An estimated 63% of Americans say they live paycheck by paycheck since the coronavirus pandemic lockdown in March 2020, according to a salary statistic. Only 53% of the respondents of the survey said they were not living check by check before the pandemic and about 44% said they we reliving beyond their means before the pandemic even started.

What percent of Americans make less than 20,000 a year?
According to Statista, about 9.1% of Americans make under $15,000 and an additional 8% of Americans have an annual pay between $15,001 and $25,000. The BLS state that people who earn an annual wage between $20,000 are considered impoverished.

 

[Flash]

It's an interesting question. Slavery has been around through most, or all, of human history. It continues today in some parts of the world. Only in Western civilization did the notion that slavery was immoral and evil arise leading to its legal abolition. What if that didn't happen and slavery existed unabated to today?

We would be like those societies we decry for brutalizing and murdering their own people.

 

[Flash]

Back in those days a family of five lived in a 1200 sqft two-bdrm home, detached one car garage and one car. Now Americans are spending themselves so deeply into debt buying big homes, multiple big cars and the latest TV sets. I've had several copilots who graduated all of their training owing more college debt than I paid for my house in 1998. Everyone is doing this voluntarily, not because they are slaves to capitalism.

If We the People increase tax, it should be used to pay off debt, not create more debt. Find better solutions without reaching into people's pockets first.

Agreed. Capitalism does not make anybody buy unnecessary products or services. People in socialist nations want all those same things--they just cannot afford most of them.

Americans pay a smaller share of our income for almost all major purchases--clothing, food, etc.

If we increased taxes we could not even eliminate our deficit much less pay down the debt.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Agreed. Capitalism does not make anybody buy unnecessary products or services. People in socialist nations want all those same things--they just cannot afford most of them.

Americans pay a smaller share of our income for almost all major purchases--clothing, food, etc.

If we increased taxes we could not even eliminate our deficit much less pay down the debt.

It's not just a matter of raising taxes, but increasing productivity. The US isn't going to stay great making hammers and tennis shoes. The leading edge of tech is where it's at. Not just manufacturing, but computer programming and maintenance. All require better educated workers.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Civilization and slavery should not even be used in the same sentence! And you should know that!

Slavery only exists today in uncivilized and 3rd world countries! Our Forefathers were White Nationalist Elite Religious and Political Zealots and Slave lords or it would have been outlawed in the original Constitution right out the gate!

End of discussion as far as I am concerned.

Slavery has existed since the earliest times mankind started organizing into civilizations.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

It's not just a matter of raising taxes, but increasing productivity. The US isn't going to stay great making hammers and tennis shoes. The leading edge of tech is where it's at. Not just manufacturing, but computer programming and maintenance. All require better educated workers.

Cheaply made Chinese hammer = $8 Might last the day in hard use.

Quality made in US hammer = $42 Lasts a lifetime.

I know. Estwing is the brand I buy for hammers.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

https://www.propdog.co.uk/image/cache/data/comedy-gags/cheap-hammer2-500x500.jpg

Cheaply made Chinese hammer = $8 Might last the day in hard use.

https://images.homedepot-static.com...c/svn/estwing-claw-hammers-e3-16s-64_1000.jpg

Quality made in US hammer = $42 Lasts a lifetime.

I know. Estwing is the brand I buy for hammers.

Awesome. How many $42 hammers does the world need? How many $50K/year jobs would their manufacture support?

The USA isn't going to stay ahead of other nations in the 21st century if all we do is use 19th century technology.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Awesome. How many $42 hammers does the world need? How many $50K/year jobs would their manufacture support?

The USA isn't going to stay ahead of other nations in the 21st century if all we do is use 19th century technology.

Enough to keep the Estwing company in business here in the US since 1923...

Since 1923, the Estwing family and its employees have taken pride in designing and manufacturing the world's most durable, comfortable and attractive striking and struck tools. All claw hammers, axes, specialty tools and pry bars are manufactured to the highest possible standards and offer a true value to both tradesmen and craftsmen alike.

https://www.estwinggear.com/about

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Enough to keep the Estwing company in business here in the US since 1923...


https://www.estwinggear.com/about

A nation of 330M making hammers? Like buggy whips and saddles, good quality goods will find a niche, but the US won't stay ahead of our competitors by using 19th century tech.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

A nation of 330M making hammers? Like buggy whips and saddles, good quality goods will find a niche, but the US won't stay ahead of our competitors by using 19th century tech.

No, not at all. The world needs hammers just as it needs super computers. Each company contributes to the whole. What's happening in the US is that government thinks like you do, hammers don't count, they don't matter. They do. Tradesmen count and matter just like computer or rocket scientists do. We aren't going to become a nation of geniuses developing high technology. We need the humble workers too to make life bearable.

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

No, not at all. The world needs hammers just as it needs super computers. Each company contributes to the whole. What's happening in the US is that government thinks like you do, hammers don't count, they don't matter. They do. Tradesmen count and matter just like computer or rocket scientists do. We aren't going to become a nation of geniuses developing high technology. We need the humble workers too to make life bearable.

This HIGH TECH tool has pretty much replaced hammers in the building trades.

Hammers are used more for wrecking out stuff now. I prefer PLUMB hammers you can still buy for around 10 bucks. I've had one for the last 50 years.

 

[RB 60]

This HIGH TECH tool has pretty much replaced hammers in the building trades.

Hammers are used more for wrecking out stuff now. I prefer PLUMB hammers you can still buy for around 10 bucks. I've had one for the last 50 years.

You use a "plumb" hammer for finishing nails? I bet the molding looks pretty dinged up.

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

You use a "plumb" hammer for finishing nails? I bet the molding looks pretty dinged up.

I would, use a smooth face 14 Oz. general use hammer if I were hammering finishing nails. And I would use a nail setter to punch them on in below the surface!

But, today, I would definitely use my nail gun for molding etc. as they sink themselves!

 

[T. A. Gardner]

This HIGH TECH tool has pretty much replaced hammers in the building trades.

Hammers are used more for wrecking out stuff now. I prefer PLUMB hammers you can still buy for around 10 bucks. I've had one for the last 50 years.

Everybody's got their favorite. As an electrician I mostly am driving staples for NM cable (Romex) or the occasional piece of framing. A nail gun is inconvenient and heavy when you have to drive a few nails during the day at most.

My preferred staple is something like this. Even the most green helpers can't screw these up and over staple them

If you use the old steel ones you can over staple the cable and get a compression short that is a MF to trace down.

 

[RB 60]

I would, use a smooth face 14 Oz. general use hammer if I were hammering finishing nails. And I would use a nail setter to punch them on in below the surface!

But, today, I would definitely use my nail gun for molding etc. as they sink themselves!

How long do the battery ones run? How many nails can you set?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

No, not at all. The world needs hammers just as it needs super computers. Each company contributes to the whole. What's happening in the US is that government thinks like you do, hammers don't count, they don't matter. They do. Tradesmen count and matter just like computer or rocket scientists do. We aren't going to become a nation of geniuses developing high technology. We need the humble workers too to make life bearable.

You're 100% wrong to think that way. Hammers do matter. The point being that the US, as a whole, needs to stay ahead of the rest of the world through more advanced tech. We won't get there by bringing all the hammer jobs back to the US. Same for jeans and other low tech jobs.

To stay ahead, we need to stay advanced ahead of the pack. This means better education of Americans and higher tech jobs.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

You're 100% wrong to think that way. Hammers do matter. The point being that the US, as a whole, needs to stay ahead of the rest of the world through more advanced tech. We won't get there by bringing all the hammer jobs back to the US. Same for jeans and other low tech jobs.

To stay ahead, we need to stay advanced ahead of the pack. This means better education of Americans and higher tech jobs.

You are oblivious to reality. Human intellect is on a bell curve. We are not going to get a nation that has say 90% college graduates. We need to recognize that those that can't still need gainful employment that gives them self respect even if they make less for what they do.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

You are oblivious to reality. Human intellect is on a bell curve. We are not going to get a nation that has say 90% college graduates. We need to recognize that those that can't still need gainful employment that gives them self respect even if they make less for what they do.

....and you just reverted to name-calling as your main argument. Awesome.

 

[Flash]

Cheaply made Chinese hammer = $8 Might last the day in hard use.

Quality made in US hammer = $42 Lasts a lifetime.

I know. Estwing is the brand I buy for hammers.

I'm sure China also makes $42 hammers. They make many products to the specs of American companies and make some pretty good products at lower prices; i.e., stereo tube amplifiers.