What Thomas Jefferson learned from the Muslim book of jihad

Southern Man said:
E85 has a maximum gasoline content of 15%. It's only there to make it unpalatable. When I've bought it here it has been nearly pure. In fact during the summer the dispenser is overun with grasshoppers.

Thatnks for the offer, but I like my alcoholic beverages more toward the high end, like a Beck's Dark, a well made Martini, or a family-brewed moonshine.
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well--there are two other reasons why they add 15% gas.

for denaturiong--your right. I build small two stroke engines for a living, and we race with alcohol. It only makes about half the energy per volume compared to gas, and without the gas in it, it would pretty much only be half as efficient as gas (half the mileage--with the same power). It also has a slow evaporation rate, and will not start when ambient temps get around 40 deg F. The gas allows it to fire up in cold weather.

It also has a property called Hygroscopic, which means it attracts and absorbs water right from the atmosphere, and it is more corrosive than gas. 99.5% of the population do not know these facts--because only racrers use it pretty much. In Michigan, with the varying climate we have, I would be a bit suprised if a engine running on e-85 continously will make it much over 100,000 miles. it absorbs water and is more corrosive. All containers have to be sealed but it has a good shelf life of about 2 years if it is sealed. We can't seal our engine blocks, and it may be hard to seal a gas tank of a car. I can see a car sitting for a while with a unsealed tank, and absorbe so much water it will not burn.

If your using a flex fuel car, and you want to use E-85--I suggest you alternate between gas andf E-85, and you might get more engine life. We flush out the race engines after each day with gas--or the engine will be a mess. (but we use methanol--which is a bit worse on the engine and parts--but race ethanol is available. Ethonal is harder to make pure) do you really think the greens care about how long your internal combustion engine lasts? Nope.

The fuel is kind of a pain for the consumer, and we switched to gas fome ethanol for the reasons above and the cost of making it.

I also saw a show the other dya promoting corn ethanol---they said, right now, it takes one gallon of gas (veihicles that use it) to make 1.3 gallons of ethanol.

I dopn't think it is feasible for the USA--but brazil has been using it for about 2 decades. They have a slightly different demand and climate than we do. But the liberials there say it works great. Not the first time they lie or don't know what they are talking about.

Now--we are using corn, and I think that is a mistake. Brazil uses sugar beats, and that works much better. I am seeing that the cost of other products are going up because of the amount of corn ethanol needs. One farmer (and a sharp one) on a talk raido show I was listening to had a great point. We are now importing food because of the consumption of our corn. This farmenr made a great point--he said--"Would you rather import your food, or your fuel? And liberials say farmers are stupid.

Pickup a Bells Obrion some time (I think it is seasonal--made form a micro brewery in MI.)

it is good stuff--all the Bells are.
 
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theMAJORITY said:
well--there are two other reasons why they add 15% gas.

for denaturiong--your right. I build small two stroke engines for a living, and we race with alcohol. It only makes about half the energy per volume compared to gas, and without the gas in it, it would pretty much only be half as efficient as gas (half the mileage--with the same power). It also has a slow evaporation rate, and will not start when ambient temps get around 40 deg F. The gas allows it to fire up in cold weather.

It also has a property called Hygroscopic, which means it attracts and absorbs water right from the atmosphere, and it is more corrosive than gas. 99.5% of the population do not know these facts--because only racrers use it pretty much. In Michigan, with the varying climate we have, I would be a bit suprised if a engine running on e-85 continously will make it much over 100,000 miles. it absorbs water and is more corrosive. All containers have to be sealed but it has a good shelf life of about 2 years if it is sealed. We can't seal our engine blocks, and it may be hard to seal a gas tank of a car. I can see a car sitting for a while with a unsealed tank, and absorbe so much water it will not burn.

If your using a flex fuel car, and you want to use E-85--I suggest you alternate between gas andf E-85, and you might get more engine life. do you really think the greens care about how long your internal combustion engine lasts? Nope.

The fuel is kind of a pain for the consumer, and we switched to gas fome ethanol for the reasons above.

I also saw a show the other dya promoting corn ethanol---they said, right now, it takes one gallon of gas (veihicles that use it) to make 1.3 gallons of ethanol.

I dopn't think it is feasible for the USA--but brazil has been using it for about 2 decades. They have a slightly different demand and climate than we do. But the liberials there say it works great. Not the first time they lie or don't know what they are talking about.
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Actually in Brazil they make it from sugar beets, which is a far more efficient source for ethanol products.
 
theMAJORITY said:
.... half as efficient as gas (half the mileage--with the same power). ...

...it takes one gallon of gas (veihicles that use it) to make 1.3 gallons of ethanol.
.....
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Interesting facts. That means that we import more fuel to make ethanol than the fuel that it replaces. I heard that it took 5 gallons of ethanol to make 4 galons of ethanol or some similar number like that.


Also interesting about the corrosivity. I knew about the water absorption. I have used it in my flex fuel Explorer and the mileage was horrible. The closest fuel station is also far away and not on my usual travel routes.

Do you race Formula V?
 
Southern Man said:
Interesting facts. That means that we import more fuel to make ethanol than the fuel that it replaces. I heard that it took 5 gallons of ethanol to make 4 galons of ethanol or some similar number like that.


Also interesting about the corrosivity. I knew about the water absorption. I have used it in my flex fuel Explorer and the mileage was horrible. The closest fuel station is also far away and not on my usual travel routes.

Do you race Formula V?
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I think the comparison with gas was because of the transportation in processing or something. I saw it on the histoy channel--I think--yesterday. I would like to see it again, and get it straight for sure. it will probably be on again.

One more thing about your flex fuel car. It is not optomized for alcohol. For racing to see the real power benifits of alky, you have to raise the compression and advance the ignition timing. Gas can not tollerate the compression ratios and cylinder pressures that alky can handle without destroying your engine from preignition and detonation. If the car was actually made for alky only, the power levels would be a lot closer, if not more. But I don't know how the 15% gas would act in a high pressure environment inside the cylinder. it might not tollerate as much compression as pure alky.

Yea--the e-85 companies forgot about how corrosive it is--espically on rubber. plastic and epoxy. (the fuel system in your flex car was updated for alky) I heard many of the e-85 pumps blew seals, and had to be replaced with neoprene.

I had a few kids in CA and a couple of other states race for me with scooters--but now, the majority of my business is with RC cars. boats etc.

I did have one guy win a championship in belgium and Croatia last year--with a off the shelf modoifed engine that costs half as much as the European competition.

I hope to travel to Europe for some races in the future. it's a write off. )
 
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Watermark said:
I toast warm ale! :clink:
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Get a fridge already, you redneck! Of course, after my roommate moved out of the apartment, I have no fridge in my room... And I'm not supposed to use the one in the common area, because one of the guys is an RA and he doesn't like the prospects of beer being discovered in the apartment of an RA on a dry campus. :clink:
 
Threedee said:
Get a fridge already, you redneck! Of course, after my roommate moved out of the apartment, I have no fridge in my room... And I'm not supposed to use the one in the common area, because one of the guys is an RA and he doesn't like the prospects of beer being discovered in the apartment of an RA on a dry campus. :clink:
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ur goin 2 hll
 
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