What Thomas Jefferson learned from the Muslim book of jihad

AssHatZombie said:
the protestant reformation kept the nicene creed. I was raised Episcopalian and we still said it every sunday.
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So did the Lutherans. When the Lutheran church started the only difference between the services of the two was that the Lutheran's held theirs in German (or the language of the area as it spread) instead of Latin and Greek and had Bibles written in the language of the area rather than solely in Latin.
 
Damocles said:
What? I said he professed a wish to join one, I didn't say he had. And again, Unitarians also believe that all other Faiths are equally valid. One can be a Kabbalist or Buddhist, for instance, and feel comfortable in their church. One does not need to have a belief in the divinity of Christ to join a Unitarian Church.

Tell me that a person who says that they are a Deist and not a Christian, writes a "gospel" that denies the Divinity of Christ, is a Christian. Then I will tell you that you are just wishing for fishes rather than casting a net.
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The quote from the Unitarian church give's their opinion of the matter. It is well researched and has some basis in the historical record. It happens to coincide with mine. You opinion is different.
 
Southern Man said:
The quote from the Unitarian church give's their opinion of the matter. It is well researched and has some basis in the historical record. It happens to coincide with mine. You opinion is different.
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Yet you say he never joined that church... Hmmm.....

The reality is you give a pass to him, when most Evangelicals would freak on a modern person with the same ideas....

I find that weak.

When seeking what religion he is, I'll take his word for it over yours on any day of the week.
 
Damocles said:
Yet you say he never joined that church... Hmmm.....

The reality is you give a pass to him, when most Evangelicals would freak on a modern person with the same ideas....

I find that weak.

When seeking what religion he is, I'll take his word for it over yours on any day of the week.
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I find it weak that you would assume that I'm an evangelical, and that you would assume that most would "freak". Rather silly as well.

I'll take his word as well (during the time that he wrote the DOI). :)
 
Southern Man said:
I find it weak that you would assume that I'm an evangelical, and that you would assume that most would "freak". Rather silly as well.

I'll take his word as well (during the time that he wrote the DOI). :)
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I base that on what I know, from being brought up among them.

Things that you presented earlier gave me that impression. Either way, I will still believe Thomas Jefferson himself over your wish that he be just like you. And when he wrote the DOI he wished to join that church (according to his own letters) because they did not force a belief in the divinity of Christ.
 
Damocles said:
I base that on what I know, from being brought up among them.

Things that you presented earlier gave me that impression. Either way, I will still believe Thomas Jefferson himself over your wish that he be just like you. And when he wrote the DOI he wished to join that church (according to his own letters) because they did not force a belief in the divinity of Christ.
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You can try to justify your assumptions but they are still incorrect. I see that you've made yet another.
 
Southern Man said:
Judgemental without basis in fact or ad hominem, same thing.
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A whole thread of your opinion is "not based on" facts? This has to be the weakest argument I have read on here in probably over a month.

Just like repeating that somebody, who says that they are not a Christian, is a Christian makes them a Christian. It is logical fallacy.
 
Damocles said:
A whole thread of your opinion is "not based on" facts? This has to be the weakest argument I have read on here in probably over a month.

Just like repeating that somebody, who says that they are not a Christian, is a Christian makes them a Christian. It is logical fallacy.
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Damocles said:
Why is it so important to you that he be Christian, even though he professed to different beliefs?
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The thread is about how Thomas Jefferson dealt with terrorism. US Citizen derailed the thread to a discussion of religion and how it “interfered with his life”. My response was that he should try living in a country that did not have Christian founders, since if he lived under Islamic law (more toward the thread topic) he’d have more understanding what interference actually meant. Then you took up the non-Christian Founders mantle. I’m still waiting for you to prove that Jefferson wasn’t a Christian, never mind that their process was guided by Christian principle.
 
Southern Man said:
The thread is about how Thomas Jefferson dealt with terrorism. US Citizen derailed the thread to a discussion of religion and how it “interfered with his life”. My response was that he should try living in a country that did not have Christian founders, since if he lived under Islamic law (more toward the thread topic) he’d have more understanding what interference actually meant. Then you took up the non-Christian Founders mantle. I’m still waiting for you to prove that Jefferson wasn’t a Christian, never mind that their process was guided by Christian principle.
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I didn't take up a mantle. I simply informed you of one person's professed beliefs. You took up the "No matter what he says, he was a Christian" argument.

The vast majority of the founders were Protestant Christians, because the vast majority of the people who migrated here were Protestant Christians. Thomas Jefferson, however, professed to be a Deist and wrote how he believed that Christ was only a man.

For some reason you want desperately to believe that somehow he was still a Christian. I don't understand why.
 
Damocles said:
I didn't take up a mantle. I simply informed you of one person's professed beliefs. You took up the "No matter what he says, he was a Christian" argument.

The vast majority of the founders were Protestant Christians, because the vast majority of the people who migrated here were Protestant Christians. Thomas Jefferson, however, professed to be a Deist and wrote how he believed that Christ was only a man.

For some reason you want desperately to believe that somehow he was still a Christian. I don't understand why.
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For some reason you apparently want to desperately believe that Jefferson was an atheist in 1776, and ignore the fact that he lost his Christian faith much later in his life.
 
Southern Man said:
For some reason you apparently want to desperately believe that Jefferson was an atheist in 1776, and ignore the fact that he lost his Christian faith much later in his life.
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Deism is not Atheism. That is a fallacy. And reading his letters from the time it was clear he held the belief at the time he wrote the DOI.
 
Damocles said:
Deism is not Atheism. That is a fallacy. And reading his letters from the time it was clear he held the belief at the time he wrote the DOI.
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When I read the same letters I come to the logical conclusion that he was a Christian without a Church. Instead of attacking my logic you simply state that I have "projected", and that "I desparately want this to be true", both assumptions irrelevant and without basis.
 
Southern Man said:
When I read the same letters I come to the logical conclusion that he was a Christian without a Church. Instead of attacking my logic you simply state that I have "projected", and that "I desparately want this to be true", both assumptions irrelevant and without basis.
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The statement that he would like to attend a Unitarian church because they do not force a belief in Christ's Deity makes him a Christian in your mind? He didn't believe in the Divinity of Christ, at that time, expressed in his letters. His letters also spoke to how he didn't believe in the Divinity, but followed the precepts of the morality better than those who did. Much like I as a Buddhist have stated that. It does not make me a Christian.

Historical accuracy is important. Especially if you were to use him as an example of the Christian Founders. It would be inaccurate.
 
Southern Man said:
Valid point. But beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
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If Franklin drank what most Americans now call beer he would have never said that. When Franklin said that beer was beer like it is made in England and in Microbreweries all over the US now. Malty, full bodied beers with hops and lots of flavor. Not this watered down piss that is sold by budmillercoors with watered down flavors and tomato juice and lime flavorings. Franklin would have been revolted by the shit they sell on tv now. Sam Adams BARELY makes the grade.
 
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