What's a Preacher to do?

This is absurd sensationalism, Norman, and you shouldn't flame it. If they try to force people to marry against their will, I will stand with you, even as huge a pro-gay marriage campaigner as I am. I haven't even heard of anyone propose that preachers be forced to marry against their will.

IMHO, the preachers word shouldn't even be legally binding. People should go and have a wedding at the church, and then have their marriage certificate signed by a magistrate. Or they can skip the wedding. It should be their choice.

I hope you are right, WM. Personally, I have no feelings one way or another where same sex marriage is concerned, nor do I hold any religious beliefs. I do, however, fear that the combination of the litigious society in which we live and some of the more militant gay rights groups (I'm sure you've seen the stories of gay activists disrupting services in Catholic churches in S.F.) will result in a lawsuit or two with the hope of forcing churches of whatever denomination to perform same sex marriages. Especially if said church recieves any form of government funding.
 
if my church council let me, I would gladly do so.

Will YOU admit that you were totally ignorant as to the law in Maine?

of course not. you are a redneck pedo who would never admit to your own failings.

You're insistence that I don't know the latest revision of some out-of-state law has nothing to do with the main thrust of my argument, that you, as a supposed Christian, will go to hell for performing said ceremony. Of course there are many other reasons that you'll be going there anyway, so perhaps that's how you'd justify it.

Is there some reason that you call me a "pedo"? Or is this another one of your baseless lies?
 
You're insistence that I don't know the latest revision of some out-of-state law has nothing to do with the main thrust of my argument, that you, as a supposed Christian, will go to hell for performing said ceremony. Of course there are many other reasons that you'll be going there anyway, so perhaps that's how you'd justify it.

Is there some reason that you call me a "pedo"? Or is this another one of your baseless lies?


The point of the OP was stupid and showed how little you know about this issue. Your views on gay marriage are your own and I certainly will not worry about going to hell if your opinion is what would send me there.

I dunno....is there some reason you call me child molester?
 
Just to answer the question.

A preacher would do as they believed to be right regardless of consequences.
 
The point of the OP was stupid and showed how little you know about this issue. Your views on gay marriage are your own and I certainly will not worry about going to hell if your opinion is what would send me there.

I dunno....is there some reason you call me child molester?
So your position is that enabling people to sin is not a sin?

I call you a child molester based on some creepy things that you've written in the past.
 
So your position is that enabling people to sin is not a sin?

I call you a child molester based on some creepy things that you've written in the past.

the position of the United Church of Christ is that homosexuality is not a sin....

and funny thing ....I think the same thing about some of the things that YOU have written about and obsessed about in the past.
 
I beg to differ with the premise of the highlighted part.

I think you are a man of faith SM, but that just goes against the teachings of Christ that I can't believe you would make such a mistake.

If Christ is unwilling to forgive such a sin, then we are all doomed to eternity as Lucifer's butt buddies.

I agree you would be condoning homosexuality and quite frankly, I would not belong to such a church, but Christ came to save the sinners and that would include not only the two gay men in your scenario, but the preacher as well.

I'm not a preacher. However, I am a man of faith. If I were licensed to perform weddings as a preacher and this scenario came upon me, I would have to politely refuse to perform the ceremony and explain the issue to these men if they would listen to me, but, if I were to perform such a ceremony, I do not for an instance believe that I would be condemned to eternity with Lucifer.



Immie

So what you're saying is, a Christian could theoretically kill a million people and still make it to heaven? Fascinating. Don't you think there are some things a true Christian simply wouldn't do to begin with? Like marrying a gay couple, for example. This very clearly conflicts with Christian morality. I don't think Christ ever taught that Christians can do whatever they want and still be saved.

I am speaking as one who considers himself a skeptical Christian. As for gay couples, they can do whatever they want, so long as they don't interfere in my life. Same goes for everyone else.

I just think you're being a pansy, that's all. Man up to what you really believe and stand by it.
 
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the position of the United Church of Christ is that homosexuality is not a sin....

and funny thing ....I think the same thing about some of the things that YOU have written about and obsessed about in the past.
Wow what kind of contortions did the UCC do to get to that conclusion? Homosexuality is clearly a sin, in fact may be the most grave imaginable.

Actually, I think you have written some pretty creepy things about the children of many that you have disagreed with, not just about mine. Perhaps you can elaborate on exactly what you have written in the past.
 
Wow what kind of contortions did the UCC do to get to that conclusion? Homosexuality is clearly a sin, in fact may be the most grave imaginable.

Actually, I think you have written some pretty creepy things about the children of many that you have disagreed with, not just about mine. Perhaps you can elaborate on exactly what you have written in the past.

if you don't agree with the UCC, please feel free to worship elsewhere.

Perhaps you can elaborate on the creepy obsessive adolescent stuff that YOU have written in the past....dad.
 
if you don't agree with the UCC, please feel free to worship elsewhere.

Perhaps you can elaborate on the creepy obsessive adolescent stuff that YOU have written in the past....dad.
I see that you've ignored my question as well as my request.
 
Was the point of this thread to discuss church policy, Maine law, or both subjects as they relate to one another?
How does a preacher justify sin, and why. Is it for political correctness? It appears that maineman's answer is to avoid the important issue of sin, then do whatever his parish board wishes, which means that his career as a a pastor is more important than his soul.
 
How does a preacher justify sin, and why. Is it for political correctness? It appears that maineman's answer is to avoid the important issue of sin, then do whatever his parish board wishes, which means that his career as a a pastor is more important than his soul.

my denomination does not see homosexuality as sinful. the UCC has many ordained gay and lesbian ministers.

I think that you really should not worry one little bit longer about my soul.

I would suggest, instead, that you start thinking about Matthew 18:22 and reevaluating your own chances at salvation.
 
Wow what kind of contortions did the UCC do to get to that conclusion? Homosexuality is clearly a sin, in fact may be the most grave imaginable.

You actually believe that homosexuality is possibly the most grave sin imaginable?

Two people loving each other and expressing that love is the "most grave sin imaginable"?

There are people beating their kids, beating their wives, murdering people, preaching hatred from pulpits of numerous faiths, starving their kids, destroying people's lives, and you think homosexuality may be the most grave sin imaginable?

Either you have a problem or your imagination isn't what it should be.
 
You actually believe that homosexuality is possibly the most grave sin imaginable?

Two people loving each other and expressing that love is the "most grave sin imaginable"?

There are people beating their kids, beating their wives, murdering people, preaching hatred from pulpits of numerous faiths, starving their kids, destroying people's lives, and you think homosexuality may be the most grave sin imaginable?

While on the face of it that would seem to be a rather powerful and persuasive argument, which all but negates the contention that homosexuality is the gravest sin known to man.

However, i have to ask you this question.

Have you ever seen an episode of 'Ellen'? Think on.
 
What kind of contortions did they go through to justify that position?

you are welcome to spend whatever time you feel is necessary on the UCC.org website exploring the denomination's rich and faithful history and our current theological positions.

I find no contortions whatsoever in them and I really don't mind one bit that you might.
 
Genesis 1:11 says, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth; and it was so.” (Quotes are from the KJV)

Verse 12 reads, “And the earth brought forth grass, and the herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind; and God saw that it was good.”

Now we move to the creation of mankind. Genesis 1:26, 27 says, “And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.”

The foundational rule was everything reproducing “after his kind.” Nowhere was there a suggestion of any variance in this rule. Homosexuals do not reproduce. They kill the whole reproductive process.

Following the fall of Adam and Eve, and their removal from the Garden of Eden, Satan began perverting the purposes of God in the human race. The very first reference to a homosexual act in Scripture occurs when Ham, the son of Noah, went into his father’s tent while Noah was in a drunken stupor, and “saw the nakedness of his father.” (see Genesis 9:22)

While somewhat euphemistic, this phrase is a Hebrew metaphor which literally means to engage in illicit sex with. The phrase appears other places in Scripture, but this incidence is quite telling.

Verse 24 of the same chapter says, “And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.”

This was not a case of Ham simply stumbling into his father’s tent and accidentally finding him naked. His act toward his father had lifetime consequences that extended to every generation that came forth from his loins.

Since Ham already had a son, Canaan, Noah could not cut off the seed coming forth from his son, so he said, “Cursed be Canaan: a servant of servants shall he be to his brethren.” (verse 25)

The further consequence of Ham’s sin of homosexuality is illustrated in the fact that the seven sons of Canaan each fathered tribes that became nations occupying all of what generally became known as the land of Canaan. Those seven nations were identified as the Hittites, the Jebusites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, and the Canaanites. The curse of Noah upon Ham’s seed was, in reality, God’s curse; and in Deuteronomy 7:1, 2, the Lord says to Moses, “When the Lord thy God shall bring thee into the land whiter thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou; And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them: thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them; Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son……”
Regner A. Capener

:readit:
 
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