Which is the worst?

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maineman said:
he DID lie when he said that "there was no doubt" that Iraq had stockpiles of WMD's....

that's a fact.

he scared us into war.... not exactly the sort of leadership I had hoped for.

but he is gone, thank god.
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You're a fucking pussy and I'd rip your head off with a dull axe and shit down your empty neck.
 
Too bad we can''t prosecute those who voted for Bush in 2004 as accessories to massive stupidity.

Voting in a spindthrift liberal like him should have gotten you kicked out of the Republican party.
 
Colin Powell's top aide testified that he was given a "chinese menu" of intel and told to make a case for war for the UN. British intelligence said that the "intel was being fixed around the policy." Paul Wolfowicz commented that they met about the going to war with Iraq, and decided that WMD's was the case that would "sell the best" to the American people. Tom Ridge implied that he was pressured to raise the terror alert at election time.

3 days before the 2003 State of the Union, Bush was given a personal daily briefing about a spy named Curveball. In that PDB, the CIA concluded that Curveball was no longer a credible source, and the intel gleaned from him was no good. Among that intel was the claim of mobile bio-weapons labs in Iraq. Curveball was the only source they had for these claims.

3 days later, in the State of the Union, Bush looked in the camera and said they had "multiple, credible sources" that there were mobile bio-weapons labs in Iraq.
 
maineman said:
he DID lie when he said that "there was no doubt" that Iraq had stockpiles of WMD's....

that's a fact.

he scared us into war.... not exactly the sort of leadership I had hoped for.

but he is gone, thank god.
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Keep on Chuggin' the Koolade,:crybaby: comrade....That lie only resonates with your more intelligent allies, like Jarod and Desh.... :mun:
 
Onceler said:
Colin Powell's top aide testified that he was given a "chinese menu" of intel and told to make a case for war for the UN. British intelligence said that the "intel was being fixed around the policy." Paul Wolfowicz commented that they met about the going to war with Iraq, and decided that WMD's was the case that would "sell the best" to the American people. Tom Ridge implied that he was pressured to raise the terror alert at election time.

3 days before the 2003 State of the Union, Bush was given a personal daily briefing about a spy named Curveball. In that PDB, the CIA concluded that Curveball was no longer a credible source, and the intel gleaned from him was no good. Among that intel was the claim of mobile bio-weapons labs in Iraq. Curveball was the only source they had for these claims.

3 days later, in the State of the Union, Bush looked in the camera and said they had "multiple, credible sources" that there were mobile bio-weapons labs in Iraq.
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Then there is the mushroom clouds, yellow cake, and the resulting Plame outing.


In all truthfulness the real president Cheney spread more of the lies about Iraq though than Bush did.
 
Onceler said:
Colin Powell's top aide testified that he was given a "chinese menu" of intel and told to make a case for war for the UN. British intelligence said that the "intel was being fixed around the policy." Paul Wolfowicz commented that they met about the going to war with Iraq, and decided that WMD's was the case that would "sell the best" to the American people. Tom Ridge implied that he was pressured to raise the terror alert at election time.

3 days before the 2003 State of the Union, Bush was given a personal daily briefing about a spy named Curveball. In that PDB, the CIA concluded that Curveball was no longer a credible source, and the intel gleaned from him was no good. Among that intel was the claim of mobile bio-weapons labs in Iraq. Curveball was the only source they had for these claims.

3 days later, in the State of the Union, Bush looked in the camera and said they had "multiple, credible sources" that there were mobile bio-weapons labs in Iraq.
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Trailer is a Mobile Lab Capable of Turning Out Bioweapons, a Team Says
By JUDITH MILLER
Published: Sunday, May 11, 2003

BAGHDAD, Iraq, May 10 ? A team of experts searching for evidence of biological and chemical weapons in Iraq has concluded that a trailer found near Mosul in northern Iraq in April is a mobile biological weapons laboratory, the three team members said today.

Describing their four-day examination of the lab for the first time and on the condition of anonymity, the members of the Chemical Biological Intelligence Support Team-Charlie, or Team Charlie, said they had based their conclusion on a thorough examination of the gray-green trailer, with the help of British experts and a few American soldiers.

The members acknowledged that some experts were still uncertain whether the trailer was intended to produce biological agents. But they said they were persuaded that it was a mobile lab for biological production.

The team leader said that the lab contained equipment that could be used to make vaccines, drugs and other peaceful pathogens, as well as deadly germs for weapons, and that Iraq had therefore been obliged to disclose possession of such equipment to international inspectors before the war.

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Later that month inspectors said that these trucks were used to generate hydrogen for weather balloons. So there certainly was so disagreements about the trucks when they were found.....mistakes made, yes.....hardly lies
 
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Whomever said:
Then there is the mushroom clouds, yellow cake, and the resulting Plame outing.

Mushroom clouds?

Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002.
Hes an old bigot, don't be so too hard on him...

Yellowcake?

About 1.8 metric tons of "yellow cake" and 500 tons of unrefined uranium went missing when the Iraqi guards left Tuwaitha unattended during the 2003 invasion of Iraq.[51] When the facility was first encountered by U.S. Marines, they believed they had stumbled upon an illegal weapons cache; according to nuclear experts, however, they actually wound up breaking the IAEA seals that are "designed to ensure the materials aren't diverted for weapons use or end up in the wrong hands."[52] The Pentagon dispatched a team to survey the site "after a month of official indecision", finding it heavily looted and said it was impossible to tell whether nuclear materials were missing.[53] This material was later sold by the new Iraqi government to Canadian uranium producer, Cameco Corp.[54]

Plame?

Mr. Armitage confirmed he was Novak's "initial and primary source" for Plame's identity.
Whats your point?



In all truthfulness the real president Cheney spread more of the lies about Iraq though than Bush did.

You don't see truth when it hits you in the face..
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.
 
bravo said:
.
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the truth is that Bush was not the only one fooled. But bush was fooled and he made the decision to go to war. The buck stopped with the president.

The fact that others were fooled as well does nothing to belittle the truth I spoke of about Bush wanting the war and using the "intelligence" to gain that end.
 
I suggest we require all federal lawmakers to devote 100% of their time to investigating everything for the next 7.5 years......it will save us a fortune.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
I suggest we require all federal lawmakers to devote 100% of their time to investigating everything for the next 7.5 years......it will save us a fortune.....
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I think that one reason the Clowntoon years were so good for the average people is that the republicans were focusing on getting Bill instead of screwing us.
This has been my theory since the late clowntoon years.

The Bush years really sucked becuase they had catching up to do.
 
bravo said:
Keep on Chuggin' the Koolade,:crybaby: comrade....That lie only resonates with your more intelligent allies, like Jarod and Desh.... :mun:
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"there is no doubt that Saddam has stockpiles of WMD's"

that was always a lie... because there always were varying levels of doubt.

that's a fact... you can chose to ignore the meaning of words in the english language if you want... I chose not to.
 
maineman said:
"there is no doubt that Saddam has stockpiles of WMD's"

that was always a lie... because there always were varying levels of doubt.

that's a fact... you can chose to ignore the meaning of words in the english language if you want... I chose not to.
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There's levels of doubt in any political situation, especially if it involves mid east politics and you have to rely on intelligence. You're being disingenuous at best, anti-American at worst.
 
Southern Man said:
There's levels of doubt in any political situation, especially if it involves mid east politics and you have to rely on intelligence. You're being disingenuous at best, anti-American at worst.
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I do not dispute the existence of levels of doubt... and clearly, neither do you.

Therefore, you should agree with me that to state and restate emphatically that there was NO doubt concerning Saddam's WMD's was a false statement.

thanks.
 
maineman said:
I do not dispute the existence of levels of doubt... and clearly, neither do you.

Therefore, you should agree with me that to state and restate emphatically that there was NO doubt concerning Saddam's WMD's was a false statement.

thanks.
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I think we can look to the legal concept of reason for guidance about this issue, as in "beyond a reasonable doubt". And clearly, you, as an admitted extreme partisan, are not being reasonable in your judgment.
 
Southern Man said:
I think we can look to the legal concept of reason for guidance about this issue, as in "beyond a reasonable doubt". And clearly, you, as an admitted extreme partisan, are not being reasonable in your judgment.
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I think we can look at the definition of the phrase "there is NO doubt" and see that it precludes the existence of ANY doubt.

Team Bush never said that Saddam had WMD's beyond a reasonable doubt... they said there was NO doubt.

two different phrases...two different meanings. And given the amount of caveats and qualifiers attached to the intelligence concerning Saddam's arsenal, one of those statements - the one they used - most certainly WAS a lie, and the other one would have been stretching the truth.
 
maineman said:
I think we can look at the definition of the phrase "there is NO doubt" and see that it precludes the existence of ANY doubt.

Team Bush never said that Saddam had WMD's beyond a reasonable doubt... they said there was NO doubt.

two different phrases...two different meanings. And given the amount of caveats and qualifiers attached to the intelligence concerning Saddam's arsenal, one of those statements - the one they used - most certainly WAS a lie, and the other one would have been stretching the truth.
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That's like saying a convicted criminal is guilty and then you call that person a liar for not including the qualifier "beyond a reasonable doubt". Obviously you are being unreasonable, and since it's due to partisan ideology, egregiously so.
 
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