Which is the worst?

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Yurt said:
“There’s no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat… Yes, he has chemical and biological weapons. He’s had those for a long time. But the United States right now is on a very much different defensive posture than we were before September 11th of 2001… He is, as far as we know, actively pursuing nuclear capabilities, though he doesn’t have nuclear warheads yet. If he were to acquire nuclear weapons, I think our friends in the region would face greatly increased risks as would we.”—Wesley Clark on September 26, 2002
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:readit:
 
That Yurt is just a clear example of military industrial complex fear mongering.

Do you think it is something else?
 
bravo said:
Declassified Excerpts Released by the White House on July 18, 2003
Key Judgments (from October 2002 NIE)

Confidence Levels for Selected Key Judgments in This Estimate

High Confidence:

* Iraq is continuing, and in some areas expanding, its chemical, biological, nuclear and missile programs contrary to UN resolutions.

* We are not detecting portions of these weapons programs.

* Iraq possesses proscribed chemical and biological weapons and missiles.

* Iraq could make a nuclear weapon in months to a year once it acquires sufficient weapons-grade fissile material.

Moderate Confidence:

* Iraq does not yet have a nuclear weapon or sufficient material to make one but is likely to have a weapon by 2007 to 2009. (see INR alternative view, page 84).

Low Confidence:

* When Saddam would use weapons of mass destruction

* Whether Saddam would engage in clandestine attacks against the US Homeland.

* Whether in desperation Saddam would share chemical or biological weapons with al-Qa'ida.

----------------------------------------------
I freely admit, Assistant Secretary of State for Intelligence and Research(Carl W. Ford Jr.) under Colin Powell claimed the intell wasn't solid enough...so what....
I'd go with the 16 intelligence agencys that write the NIE first....as any President would....


So now that you've been schooled again, why don't you give it a fuckin' rest.
Being a patriot isn't all that bad, give it a try....
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.
 
Yurt said:
no....did he lie or not

since you jumped into the debate....the issue is whether certain phrases, such as "no doubt" or "no question"....mean a lie
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Yes if the phrase "no doubt" or "no Question" is used and the statement proves to be wrong then only 2 options exist.
Either a lie or a fool.
 
British Intelligence: "The intel was being fixed around the policy"

Colin Powell's aide, Col. Lawrence Wilkerson: "(Powell) came through the door ... and he had in his hands a sheaf of papers, and he said, 'This is what I've got to present at the United Nations according to the White House, and you need to look at it. It was anything but an intelligence document. It was, as some people characterized it later, sort of a Chinese menu from which you could pick and choose."

Paul O'Neil: "It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying 'Go find me a way to do this,'"

Bipartisan Senate Committe: the admin manipulated intelligence.

The list goes on.

Play word games with it; is it a "lie" to stack evidence, or just deception?

In the end, who cares? I want a President who will bend over backwards to find reasons NOT to go to war. Not one who makes the decision, then says "find me something."
 
Onceler said:
British Intelligence: "The intel was being fixed around the policy"

Colin Powell's aide, Col. Lawrence Wilkerson: "(Powell) came through the door ... and he had in his hands a sheaf of papers, and he said, 'This is what I've got to present at the United Nations according to the White House, and you need to look at it. It was anything but an intelligence document. It was, as some people characterized it later, sort of a Chinese menu from which you could pick and choose."

Paul O'Neil: "It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying 'Go find me a way to do this,'"

Bipartisan Senate Committe: the admin manipulated intelligence.

The list goes on.

Play word games with it; is it a "lie" to stack evidence, or just deception?

In the end, who cares? I want a President who will bend over backwards to find reasons NOT to go to war. Not one who makes the decision, then says "find me something."
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hindsight is 20/20......fact remains it is the height of partisan hackery to say ONLY bush lied and not the other world leaders, democrats etc....who said the same thing....that is my only point and the stupidity of hanging one's hat on the phrase "do doubt"
 
Onceler said:
British Intelligence: "The intel was being fixed around the policy"

Colin Powell's aide, Col. Lawrence Wilkerson: "(Powell) came through the door ... and he had in his hands a sheaf of papers, and he said, 'This is what I've got to present at the United Nations according to the White House, and you need to look at it. It was anything but an intelligence document. It was, as some people characterized it later, sort of a Chinese menu from which you could pick and choose."

Paul O'Neil: "It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying 'Go find me a way to do this,'"

Bipartisan Senate Committe: the admin manipulated intelligence.

The list goes on.

Play word games with it; is it a "lie" to stack evidence, or just deception?

In the end, who cares? I want a President who will bend over backwards to find reasons NOT to go to war. Not one who makes the decision, then says "find me something."
Click to expand...

Key Judgments (from October 2002 NIE)

Confidence Levels for Selected Key Judgments in This Estimate

High Confidence:

* Iraq is continuing, and in some areas expanding, its chemical, biological, nuclear and missile programs contrary to UN resolutions.

* We are not detecting portions of these weapons programs.

* Iraq possesses proscribed chemical and biological weapons and missiles.

* Iraq could make a nuclear weapon in months to a year once it acquires sufficient weapons-grade fissile material.


Does the NIE express doubt....????

Do you know what the phrase "High Confidence:" is intended to convey to the President....
 
It's not hindsight.

They were cherrypicking; stacking the evidence. They rushed to war, on what amounts to deception.

It's inexcusable. So don't make excuses for it.
 
Onceler said:
It's not hindsight.

They were cherrypicking; stacking the evidence. They rushed to war, on what amounts to deception.

It's inexcusable. So don't make excuses for it.
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yep why the Bush pushed unrealistic deadline for the inspectors in Iraq?
We were in no immediate danger a couple of months would not have mattered?
 
Onceler said:
It's not hindsight.

They were cherrypicking; stacking the evidence. They rushed to war, on what amounts to deception.

It's inexcusable. So don't make excuses for it.
Click to expand...

then how is it the dems have been saying the SAME things as far back as 1998.....world leaders said the SAME things bush was saying.....

if you're going to say bush stacked it....then you must admit the dems stacked as well....
 
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is using and developing weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002.

Are Al Gore or Teddy the Swimmer expressing any doubt....???
 
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